Illegal to do service calls on certain tanks?

[hart24601]

Op is no longer unaware of the law. Its no longer a valid excuse. If you know a law is being broken and hide that fact than you are just as guilty as the one commuting the act. I would not service the account.

I would more say the OP is aware there is some sort of a law, however the species and the scope they are not aware of. However since it's hypothetical it doesn't matter much since it’s not going to happen.



It I had a servicing company I would have a section of the contract or some written portion that would have the owner initial a statement or similar content to “There are no illegal animals in the system(s) to be serviced”.



I am assuming if a person saw a clearly endangered animal like a green sea turtle they would report it, however the laws are clearly confusing and species identification are really outside the scope of what a person cleaning an aquarium is expected to act on.

 

[hart24601]

Not knowing the law isn't a free pass You can still break a law while being unaware of it, "ignorance of law excuses no one."

Well and this goes to the bigger issue, is it unlawful to service that tank? Which law and what charge? If the only law or charge is not reporting the owner for being unlawful, then not knowing the law is important as there is nothing for them to report.

 

[sharpimage]

Who's gonna hop in the tank and measure it? I thought it was 42" long.....

If you are receiving money for maintaining a tank, a reasonable person would assume you know the laws regarding such endeavors. If someone was feeding fish of a neighbor that is on vacation, one would assume they are unaware of such laws and not in violation of not reporting it.

 

[Sailingeric]

If it is illegal to have a shark less than 3 feet, then how is it the Live Aquaria sells bamboo sharks which ship from California, full grown is just at 3 feet and I suspect what they sell is smaller since you cal get shark eggs as well.

 

[sharpimage]

If it is illegal to have a shark less than 3 feet, then how is it the Live Aquaria sells bamboo sharks which ship from California, full grown is just at 3 feet and I suspect what they sell is smaller since you cal get shark eggs as well.

He said specifically Leopard sharks.

 

[JPK]

Like I said, unless there was more to it we would not put the effort into filing a random/creative charge on the service company, and a district attorney generally would not file the case if we did.

 

[saltyhog]

Hi Kuzko,

It sounds like this was a hypothetical question and I believe it has been answered. To try and quickly answer your question. It is unlawful in Mexico to keep any sport fish alive for ornamental purposes (aquarium) and it is unlawful to possess an undersize leopard shark in CA. Take a look at the Federal Lacey Act, this covers the regulations associated with importation of wildlife that is illegal. Now if this was taken commercially in Mexico and imported for the CA pet trade, there are potentially other issues.

If you would like to PM me, I can give you my number and we could talk about regulations.



Saltyhog,

CA defines it as "Take" not human consumption related to eating. Taking an undersize leopard shark for food or to put in an aquarium is the same. The possession is illegal not why you possess it. When things are commercialized (exchange of $) things get more complicated. "Take" is defined in the Fish and Game Code section 86 as to Hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill or attempt to do so.

Another example of Take in Ca is you need a fishing license to take (catch and keep) a native snake, and there are limits on the number you can have. People are generally not eating snakes.

Jason

Not eating snakes? What's wrong with you Californians! ?

Thanks for the clarification! I was wondering if there were stiffer penalties for taking it as a pet. Many of our game animals here are illegal to take alive to keep as a pet. Taking smaller than the limit fish (or outside the slot limit which we have some of here) is not an offense that carries anything more than a pretty good fine. It could result in suspension of your hunting and fishing privileges if you are a repeat offender. Of course we don't have any marine species to deal with.

Thank you for your service! Wildlife officers have a tough job and are greatly unappreciated IMO.

 

[Katrina71]

I'll measure it! I can assure you this beauty was legal size!

 

[Katrina71]

Just wanted to show how beautiful they are!

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I would more say the OP is aware there is some sort of a law, however the species and the scope they are not aware of. However since it's hypothetical it doesn't matter much since it’s not going to happen.



It I had a servicing company I would have a section of the contract or some written portion that would have the owner initial a statement or similar content to “There are no illegal animals in the system(s) to be serviced”.



I am assuming if a person saw a clearly endangered animal like a green sea turtle they would report it, however the laws are clearly confusing and species identification are really outside the scope of what a person cleaning an aquarium is expected to act on.

Are those not allowed?

 

[Sailingeric]

He said specifically Leopard sharks.

the original message was "we"re located in california and it is illegal to have any sharks smaller then 3 feet " I took it as any being all sharks.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

the original message was "we"re located in california and it is illegal to have any sharks smaller then 3 feet " I took it as any being all sharks.

I was a little confused by that too

 

[sharpimage]

I was a little confused by that too

I guess I read it wrong as well

 

[Kuzko]

I still see two issues with this topic. For starters, are we speaking about the Pacific variant Triakis Semifasciata, or the Japanese variety Triakis Scyllium? Additionally, I'm not sure why you think live fish export from Mexico is Illegal. Where do you think Clarion Angelfish are from? I feel like you are a california wildlife game warden, not USFW officer... I think this may be leading to lots of confusion (on my side mostly). As far as I know the 36" rule is in relation to fishing bag and tag rules, not ornamental use. Are you saying there is an import ban on them from out of state per California law? I'm not in California so this is where my confusion is. I work with a lot of USFWS clearance officers as I'm a licensed importer and I've never once heard any of these things..... Also, how is it going to be proven the fish came out of protected waters and not from Oregon or Mexico? Courts would view the case as innocent until proven guilty. Somebody would have to be pretty dumb to take a tagged shark. Not sure how else it would be proved.

 

[MnFish1]

In Michigan if you get caught with a illegal animal they can seize your house, everything in the house, anything on the property, and anything they think may have been used, and then hold that until they get bored. Also don’t forget the fact most co’s around me have ar10’s ar15’s high capacity pistols, 1000yard plus can bangers, body armor, night vision and or thermal, drones, boats, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles. And that all in the truck. Like a mobile army.

Just 1 sled, boat, or 4 wheeler. They don’t all fit in the truck!

Luckily co’s I know are some of the coolest and laid back people. Until you lie......

Yes - they can do all of that - but They will not do that on a first offense. Now if you own an illegal lion and it eats a 4 year old child you're in big trouble.

 

[MnFish1]

If it is illegal to have a shark less than 3 feet, then how is it the Live Aquaria sells bamboo sharks which ship from California, full grown is just at 3 feet and I suspect what they sell is smaller since you cal get shark eggs as well.

It is leopard sharks.... IN California. <36 inches - I had this question also - but I looked it up. Other sharks except requiem sharks are 'ok' (and Great whites are not ok)

 

[MnFish1]

the original message was "we"re located in california and it is illegal to have any sharks smaller then 3 feet " I took it as any being all sharks.

and the next sentence said

So we started discussing about if we can get in trouble even if we just service someone tank who has leapord sharks smaller then 3 feet.

 

[MnFish1]

To piggy back off this - OP ask an attorney who practices in the applicable field. Might be a free consult or a small fee to get a definitive answer.

Dont know if anyone was paying attention - I posted a link which stated "its not a crime to not report criminal activity" in most states. But - you can get hit for "aiding and abetting a crime". In this type of case - I would assume that the main enforcement issue would be against the owner of the fish. Not the person that vacuums the tank. Now - on the other hand - if a hypothetical owner asked a maintenance company "I have this endangered species and I want you to help me care for it" - I would say that the service company should certainly be REQUIRED to tell the owner of the animal is 'endangered' and that they cant service the tank on those grounds. I could conceive of an owner - lets say a leopard shark - hiring a maintenance company - and then saying 'Well I hired this company to maintain my tank - he knew it was a leopard shark - and didnt say anything'. I still dont think the company would be liable but - the owner could use it as a 'defense'

 

[inDcreations]

If you ever got into legal trouble (doubtful), you could just say you never measured any of your clients livestock.

 

[karlandtanya]

IANAL, but...If it's illegal & you participate by helping them carry out their illegal activity, wouldn't that make you an accessory?