Imbalance issues

[BasementBox]

Some friends on here know the full story and it’s way too long to go into to do a crazy diagnostic on what’s going on here. However. For a fast summary my tank is almost a year old, and most corals besides softies had struggled. Badly. I discovered it was due to my initial rodi installation that I had not installed the Resin membrane. At all. TDS, 160 right into the tank. My fish managed. Some corals have as well. I upgraded approx two weeks ago to a 6 stage rodi unit 0 tds.

Algae has begun to die off as expected. However three days ago my nitrates were at
24 phosphates
.6 nitrates
8.3 alk
1.026 salinity.

For well over month my phosphates have been incredibly high. So I naturally attempted to address this. March 3rd I put cheato in a refugium its baseball sized. I also added phosgaurd. Today I went and tested and my results came back as this:

.46 phosphates
0.2 nitrates.
8.4 alk
1.026 nitrates

Since the discovery of the tds I’ve changed approximately 150 gallons of water over the two weeks.


To address the nitrates bottoming out I dosed neonitro nitrates and will be testing again in a few hours. Can anyone give me a hint on this wild swing?

I have heavy fish livestock. Fed 2-3x daily. Pellets, as well as frozen. 2 sheets of nori as well. Skimmer is on. Refugium light 12 hours on 12 hours off.

 

[Science/G]

The chaeto sucked up all the nitrates apparently without moving the phosphates. The phosguard dropped the P04? I have read that chaeto has more of an impact on N03 than P04 here on this app at some point. In my classroom reef I run a little chaeto in a net breeder, and it seemed to lower nitrates more than phosphates. IMHO FWIW

 

[Science/G]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chaeto-works-too-well-on-nitrate-but-not-with-phosphate.604118/

 

[BasementBox]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chaeto-works-too-well-on-nitrate-but-not-with-phosphate.604118/

So it could be just a combination of my cheato starting to take off as well as seeing the effects of phosgaurd working, is what you’re suggesting?

 

[Science/G]

I want to bring my Nitrates down a bit from 20- 22 to 10-15 ppm, and keep my pH up at night. So, I purchased a drop .6 algae scrubber. I seeded it with some turf algae from my display Now after revisiting this, I think I going to try some chaeto. I'm happy with my Phosphate balance from feeding and reef roids.

 

[Science/G]

So it could be just a combination of my cheato starting to take off as well as seeing the effects of phosgaurd working, is what you’re suggesting?

Seems like a strong possibility, if chaeto does in fact have a larger impact on N03 than P04.

 

[BasementBox]

I want to bring my Nitrates down a bit from 20- 22 to 10-15 ppm, and keep my pH up at night. So, I purchased a drop .6 algae scrubber. I seeded it with some turf algae from my display Now after revisiting this, I think I going to try some chaeto. I'm happy with my Phosphate balance from feeding and reef roids.

Okay but i 3 days time you think a baseball sized of cheato is capable of almost bottoming out my nitrates?

 

[Science/G]

I'm curious to see what others have to say about this.

 

[Science/G]

Okay but i 3 days time you think a baseball sized of cheato is capable of almost bottoming out my nitrates?

That seems like a lot. Did you observe a significant amount of growth? That is a big chunk of chaeto.

 

[BasementBox]

That seems like a lot. Did you observe a significant amount of growth? That is a big chunk of chaeto.

Nothing that’s been to the point of me not serving a large change. Could I cut a chunk out, sure but this tank is sitting at 150g, the only observable change I’ve noticed is that the cheato looks like it got looser and has spread out more, but can be seen through more as well (less dense)

 

[Science/G]

So I just tested my classroom reef nitrates 10.1 ppm phosphate .44 I have a reactor in the sump where I run Rowaphos. It has obviously been depleted. Over the last few months I've had to back off the light cycle on my chaeto and even dose nitrates. Phosphates only drop with fresh media in the reactor.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So I just tested my classroom reef nitrates 10.1 ppm phosphate .44 I have a reactor in the sump where I run Rowaphos. It has obviously been depleted. Over the last few months I've had to back off the light cycle on my chaeto and even dose nitrates. Phosphates only drop with fresh media in the reactor.

Bringing it down is certainly fine, but I'd be very cautions about the rate.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

 

[Science/G]

Bringing it down is certainly fine, but I'd be very cautions about the rate.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.

Randy I think back to your thread about the impact of phosphates on coral growth and coloration. In my classroom reef aquarium I have a goniopora that was fragged from a colony I still have at home in my reef. In my home reef my phosphates are running .05 both specimens look similar. Lights are both AI, the schedule and spectrum very similar. The only difference I see between these two genetically identical corals, is that in the reef with the higher phosphates , the specimen seems little darker with a slightly deeper rich color.

 

[Science/G]

I follow @Randy Holmes-Farley recommendations for nitrate and phosphate levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Lights are both AI, the schedule and spectrum very similar. The only difference I see between these two genetically identical corals, is that in the reef with the higher phosphates , the specimen seems little darker with a slightly deeper rich color.

Interesting. Some folks dosing ammonia have also detected darkening of certain corals. Not sure what it means. :)

@rishma

 

[rishma]

I definitely saw darkening of LPS with dosing ammonia and lightening back when I stopped ammonia. Nitrates were not significantly different with/without ammonia. My phosphate is usually steady just below 0.1 ppm. I have not experimented with sustaining higher phosphate levels so I am not sure how it would impact coral color.

 

[BasementBox]

Interesting. Some folks dosing ammonia have also detected darkening of certain corals. Not sure what it means. :)

@rishma

Thank you. Yes I started to use gentle export and tried phosgaurd to bind phosphate as it sat ar .6 now .4. My nitrates are bottoming out, and my lfs surmised it could be that the algae is switching from phosphate consumption to nitrate since it was being depleted?

Regardless it’s good to know that if I get below .3 phosphate that’s considered acceptable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My nitrates are bottoming out, and my lfs surmised it could be that the algae is switching from phosphate consumption to nitrate since it was being depleted?

Unlikely. Those are used for entirely different purposes and both are needed to build new tissue. It would be like a person replacing air for water.