Struggling To Lower Phosphates

[Hancat]

Good Morning fellow reefers,

I run a pico reef tank at my Vet office, and I’m struggling to lower the phosphates regardless of what I do.

Setup:

5 Gallons
Setup with TBS sand / Live rock - 7 months ago
Kessil A80 Tuna Blue
Duetto 2 top off
Sicce micron pump

Stocking:

Skunk clownfish
Clown goby
8 sexy shrimp
Fire shrimp

Corals:
Long tip anemones

Rear chamber is a DIY refugium, established TBS rock, polyfill, and so much macro I couldn’t possibly fit more. Also have enough copepods to feed an army.

Water change schedule - every 2 days - 40-80 oz, I do my best to suck out debris off the rock, but the debris in the rear chamber is hard to get to.

I feed TDS pellets / frozen food in small amounts every other day.

Parameters:

PH: 8.2
ALK: 8
Temp: 78
SG: 1.024
Phos: 0.9
Nitrates: 29

Haven’t tested mag or calc because I’m lazy but will test if requested.

I realize the stocking could be a large contributing factor, but I have seen the same pico tank with equal stocking and harder corals to maintain having zero issues with phosphate.

Any assistance from the reef gods here?

Thanks!

 

[Gumbies R Us]

#reefsquad

 

[Hancat]

Side note: I am aware one of the LTAs is bleached, it was sold to me in that state at a discount and I was hoping to save it. (Long shot I know)

 

[Fish Fan]

In my opinion, neither your nitrate or your phosphate is high for the tank that you have., which looks good from what I can see. Are you having a problem with your tank that you think is from high phosphate?

I like to follow the guidelines from Randy Holmes-Farley on nutrient target ranges, and he now suggests that up to 0.30 ppm phosphate is acceptable. Here's Randy's article on this:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

And from the above article he writes:
"4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up."

I hope this helps!

 

[Hancat]

In my opinion, neither your nitrate or your phosphate is high for the tank that you have., which looks good from what I can see. Are you having a problem with your tank that you think is from high phosphate?

I like to follow the guidelines from Randy Holmes-Farley on nutrient target ranges, and he now suggests that up to 0.30 ppm phosphate is acceptable. Here's Randy's article on this:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/

And from the above article he writes:
"4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up."

I hope this helps!

Appreciate your knowledgeable reply and sources. I was under the impression 0.9 phosphate would affect the health of the LTA's, so as long as that is incorrect I can relax a little (haha). I'm still a beginner reefer, only about 2 years under my belt so I appreciate your help.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I don't see any algae in your tank so I'm not sure of the concern. You have a lot of macro algae in there which will happily consume it, everything in your tank looks happy. Intuition is better and more accurate than any test IMO. If your really concerned then you can throw mesh baggie of gfo in your sump area to slowly absorb it.

 

[EricR]

Not sure if you should worry about it or not so I'll leave that alone.
I think 0.90 ppm is MAX on that Hanna checker so could be much higher.

GFO in a media bag in HOB filter works well for me so anywhere you have high flow, you could try that, if you wanted to.
Can't really tell what's what but maybe above that wad of filter floss or something.
*not the most efficient way to run GFO but can work
Just a thought...

 

[Hancat]

Not sure if you should worry about it or not so I'll leave that alone.
I think 0.90 ppm is MAX on that Hanna checker so could be much higher.

GFO in a media bag in HOB filter works well for me so anywhere you have high flow, you could try that, if you wanted to.
Can't really tell what's what but maybe above that wad of filter floss or something.
*not the most efficient way to run GFO but can work
Just a thought...

Will give this a shot, not much high flow in the tank anywhere as the size really prohibits a faster pump, will try it anyways, thank you!

Something like ROWAphos?

 

[EricR]

Will give this a shot, not much high flow in the tank anywhere as the size really prohibits a faster pump, will try it anyways, thank you!

Something like ROWAphos?

If no high flow area then probably not worth it.
There are HOB reactors but not sure if worth the space in this case.

Many like ROWAphos but I just use cheaper GFO from Amazon or BRS.

 

[Fish Fan]

Appreciate your knowledgeable reply and sources. I was under the impression 0.9 phosphate would affect the health of the LTA's, so as long as that is incorrect I can relax a little (haha). I'm still a beginner reefer, only about 2 years under my belt so I appreciate your help.

I know that Randy, who wrote the article I quoted above, has kept anemone, and I would *think* he had them in mind when he thought of these parameters (he does mention this is for a mixed reef), but I don't know enough about those anemone to say for sure, and I don't want to say the wrong thing

The one minor caution on using GFO is that especially with a very small tank you run the risk of dropping the phosphate to zero, which is worse than high phosphate (in my opinion). Go slowly if you try GFO

 

[Hancat]

I know that Randy, who wrote the article I quoted above, has kept anemone, and I would *think* he had them in mind when he thought of these parameters (he does mention this is for a mixed reef), but I don't know enough about those anemone to say for sure, and I don't want to say the wrong thing

The one minor caution on using GFO is that especially with a very small tank you run the risk of dropping the phosphate to zero, which is worse than high phosphate (in my opinion). Go slowly if you try GFO

Any recommendations for an amount to start with?

 

[Fish Fan]

Any recommendations for an amount to start with?

I personally wouldn't use it here. I think @Mr. Mojo Rising is right that your macros will consume it as they grow I think you're in good shape, unless someone can definitively say that the phosphate is too high for your 'nem.

I know some of the other Reef Squad members are good with anemone questions, I'm sure they or others will be along soon to comment.