Intestinal parasites? Flukes? Both?

[Weeb]

There are internal flukes that can take months to finally kill a fish. A new fish, stressed out having gone through the system, may succumb to flukes in days or weeks.

Be sure the fish are given the best foods. Read through the Fish Health Rough Proper Nutrition post when you can.

Tough set of circumstances. I'm very sorry for what appears to be the loss. I can only say what I would do in this case: Catch all fish; give a Rally Pro dip (as described above) and put fish in a bare bottom hospital tank (new saltwater (same pH, salinity, and temp) that has aged) for further observation. Have the display tank go fallow for at least 6 weeks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal Are there not some flukes that are Praziquantel resistant?

Maybe OP should switch to Hyposalinity, Formalin, or Fenbendazole?

A hydrogen peroxide bath can be better than a FW dip, but, I would do neither at this point. I was just suggesting an alternative to a FW dip for future dips of new fishes. (See above -- maybe Hyposalinity, Formalin, or Fenbendazole is the way to go). Rally Pro by Ruby Reef contains acriflavine, aminoacridine, and formalin.
For an effective Formalin treatment using Rally Pro: Best used as a bath. Take fish from tank. Dip at 2x concentration, for 90 minutes. Best to use new & aged saltwater. Be sure to: (a) Temperature control the bath water by using a heater. (b) Provide plenty of oxygen by using an air pump + air stone. (c) Ensure salinity, pH and temperature of the dip water matches the tank the fish is coming from (or use water the fish is currently in and maintain temperature). Then move fish into a clean/new quarantine tank - same salinity, pH and temp as was the dip water for observation. QT should not be where this fish or any fish came from.

If you see sesame seed shaped things, then the fish had flukes. If you don’t see anything with the unaided eye, there still may flukes/worms in the dip water. Gill flukes are not visible to the unaided eye. Do you have a microscope or access to one? If so, check the dip water (surface, mid-area, and bottom) under a microscope. You may see blobs/spots. This also confirms the fish has flukes/worms.

The dip gives relief, it doesn't cure or "clear out" gill flukes. Gill flukes will resist the dip. It would have to be an extended time at a salinity of about 1.009 SG. The use of Formalin (bath) may take care of the gill flukes.

I hope the fish hangs on.

“Praziquantel resistant” flukes are not really a thing, but what happens really has the same effect: multiple doses of prazi in a tank grow a strain of heterotrophic bacteria that preferentially consume prazi as a food source. After about five concurrent treatments, they get so good at it that the prazi has no time to work any more. This bacteria can persist in tanks for months/years.
The other reason people think there are prazi resistant flukes is when they try to treat egg laying Neobenedenia - even one unhatched can start the infection back up again, making it seem that the flukes are resistant.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Went to sleep with the fish intermittently swimming/laying on the sand, still breathing heavily. The FW dip definitely stressed him out, and didn't help with the breathing, but it seemed like the activity level was recovering slowly. Woke up about 30 minutes ago and there is no fish. It's gone. Can't seem to find a body anywhere. The hermit crabs were especially active in the same corner where I left him, but I don't see any debris, bones, nothing. I doubt my small CUC devoured him in the span of ~5 hours. Maybe dove into a hole in the rock at the end? I am considering this fish dead. Found the body and removed it fortunately. The fish is dead.

It's absolutely possible I missed stringy feces. I have actively watched him poop normally in the past couple of days, and the stringy feces from the previous clown would stay attached to the fish for 24hrs or more sometimes, so I like to think I would have noticed.

So I'm at 2 dead clowns. 3 remaining healthy*(except for the basslet swim bladder) fish.

Any advice on where to go from here? I'm not sure what killed these two fish. I'd love to pull the remaining fish and treat, but I don't know what I'm treating for. The timeline is especially confusing to me. First clown was ~30 days after purchase. Next clown was ~2 weeks after that. Once symptoms appear it feels like it's too late. First clown lasted about a week. This one lasted about 2 days.

Do I go full stop, pull all the remaining fish, put them through a (delayed) qt, and fallow the tank for 6 weeks?
Is it even possible the other fish haven't been infected and I would be able to leave them in the DT and monitor?

Independent of either option we can consider me a quarantine convert. What a mess this has been.

@Weeb I'm going to have to look into the H2O2 dip. Seems like a good tool to have in the box. I do not have a microscope unfortunately to inspect for microscopic flukes. Same question as to Jay above - where do I go from here?

Tough to say what the next step should be since the diagnosis wasn’t really formed up.
I know it sounds lame, but maybe just let the tank chill for 45 days. If nothing new crops up on the remaining fish, then slowly restock with quarantined fish.
Jay

 

[Blopple]

Tough to say what the next step should be since the diagnosis wasn’t really formed up.
I know it sounds lame, but maybe just let the tank chill for 45 days. If nothing new crops up on the remaining fish, then slowly restock with quarantined fish.
Jay

I like this answer. The 45 days doesn't seem quite as long since there will still be fish in there. And it'll take me longer than that to QT new fish anyhow.

I'll order some Ruby Reef to have on hand for the future along with some metro.With the copper for qt I should have a reasonably stocked fish med cabinet.

I know this sounds reductionist, but I kinda feel like a just got a 'bad batch' of clowns. There are huge problems with the sentence, but we'll call it a coping mechanism.

Thanks for all your help. R2R is lucky to have you.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I like this answer. The 45 days doesn't seem quite as long since there will still be fish in there. And it'll take me longer than that to QT new fish anyhow.

I'll order some Ruby Reef to have on hand for the future along with some metro.With the copper for qt I should have a reasonably stocked fish med cabinet.

I know this sounds reductionist, but I kinda feel like a just got a 'bad batch' of clowns. There are huge problems with the sentence, but we'll call it a coping mechanism.

Thanks for all your help. R2R is lucky to have you.

Certainly, you can wait longer than 45 days, always safer to do that!

Jay

 

[Weeb]

“Praziquantel resistant” flukes are not really a thing, but what happens really has the same effect: multiple doses of prazi in a tank grow a strain of heterotrophic bacteria that preferentially consume prazi as a food source. After about five concurrent treatments, they get so good at it that the prazi has no time to work any more. This bacteria can persist in tanks for months/years.
The other reason people think there are prazi resistant flukes is when they try to treat egg laying Neobenedenia - even one unhatched can start the infection back up again, making it seem that the flukes are resistant.
Jay

I always thought the same, but some hobbyists "swear" that they followed PraziPro directions and it didn't rid their fish of worms. Then, I have never really trusted PraziPro. . .Is each lot made properly? Have the other ingredients changed? Praziquantel can't be measured/tested by the hobbyist.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I always thought the same, but some hobbyists "swear" that they followed PraziPro directions and it didn't rid their fish of worms. Then, I have never really trusted PraziPro. . .Is each lot made properly? Have the other ingredients changed? Praziquantel can't be measured/tested by the hobbyist.

Prazipro works best on small gyrodactylus and dactyligyrus flukes. I don’t think it works well on Neobenedenia. Any longer, I’m suggesting people use hyposalinity for Neo.

I used know the person who developed Prazipro. He is retired now, but he was a good chemist and a decent aquarist. Better caliber than many people developing fish medications (grin).
I tried contacting him recently but never heard back…..

Jay