Invincible GHA

[W31Olds]

I have had snails and the problem is well, they're snails. Mine sit in one place for days on end and then move around. Sure, they eat Algae, but if I wanted a clean Algae Free Tank, I could see it taking hundreds. Urchins are better but they tend to slow down also. Maybe consider a Sea Hare. I've heard good things about them. You could also consider an Algae Scrubber. I will probably add one to my new Tank. Randy has cautioned that they can bottom out Phosphate leading to other problems, but I feed heavy so should not be an issue.
@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[mcarroll]

I have had snails and the problem is well, they're snails. Mine sit in one place for days on end and then move around. Sure, they eat Algae, but if I wanted a clean Algae Free Tank, I could see it taking hundreds. Urchins are better but they tend to slow down also. Maybe consider a Sea Hare. I've heard good things about them. You could also consider an Algae Scrubber. I will probably add one to my new Tank. Randy has cautioned that they can bottom out Phosphate leading to other problems, but I feed heavy so should not be an issue.
@Randy Holmes-Farley

You might need upwards of 2 Turbo snails per gallon for a heavy load.

But don't add that many all at once.....that's almost always a recipe for disaster. Add at most several at a time and allow a few weeks between additions so you can assess whether more are really needed.

Nutrient control ≠ algae control so IMO put the algae scrubber thought aside until the problem is kicked.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Just curious why do you think raising nutrients would defeat algae growth?

I have read that too, that too low may promote certain strains that thrive in it but I have tried it already with no changes. For a couple months I kept it about 5ppm n03 and .08 po4. Didn't help

Raising N and P won’t defeat the algae, it will only slow the growth.
There are a few reasons why you could benefit from slightly higher nutrient, the most important would be the increase of biodiversity that could help compete with the algae, many organisms in our tanks can become limited in Phosphates at ultra low residual, in addition algae have the ability to change from inorganic to organic nutrients in this situations being able to take the edge over other organisms in your tank.
So it won’t kill it but it will allow your system to strengthen while you use CUC, manual removal or block light locally. If you choose to block light or chemical treatment it will be important to raise nutrient as killing algae in a reef aquarium can be very similar to carbon dosing.

 

[Davem24]

Pictures of the tank?
Quantity of cuc members?

 

[Davem24]

Pictures of the tank?
Quantity of cuc members?

I'll try to take some with out all the glare and whiter lights later

 

[Davem24]

Has anyone else encountered a GHA that nothing eats, no treatment works and basically is invincible?

Only every person in the hobby. :)

Our CUC (eg snails) can only manage algae when it's a brand new sprout. Mature algae gets inedible for various reasons and then nobody wants to eat it.

Out of the blue a year ago so had a huge algae bloom. Happened fast ( and yes it's my fault I didn't react sooner) and it immediately started effecting corals. The star polyps became engulfed, it choked out smaller sps sticks and even killed off a frogspawn that was doing good but became engulfed.

This is the m.o. of most pest algae.

After a year of manual removal, and managing nutrients, constant clean up crew additions, deep cleanings and aggressive water changes I went chemicals.

Some of those things will make the problem worse.

I started with reefflux thinking maybe it's bryopsis and if not sometimes this works on gha. No change.

Sorry this didn't come up before you went that route...

I then tried algae fix with great dread. After 2 weeks I'd say most of it did die off.

...and that route...

Parameters:
SG: 1.025- 1.026
Dkh: 9.0-9.1
Cal: 425
Mag: 1300
No3: .5
Po4: .01

Nutrients this low will prevent anything else from growing on the rock to replace the algae.

This is the only reason that nutrient levels matter, BTW.

Dosing: A4R
Carbon from tropic marin

I would find different non-carbon solutions for both until you get past this.

Fuge: mangroves and sea lettuce
Filters: Filter socks
Dry skimming
Carbon
GFO

That sounds like your live rock has had LOTS of competition, not just from the algae. I would disable or remove all of that other than the protein skimmer, at least until you're past this.

Doesn't look too bad!

Corals look great!!!

I'll send pics later,

I had 5 turbos
30 assorted snails
40 hemits
2 urchins

I'm down to maybe 5 snails
30 hermits
2 urchins

The die off happened with tons of short algae. They will not eat it.

By the time you can see the algae it's too big for them.

Hermits are scavengers, so leave them out of the equation next time – they probably killed most of your CUC.

Trochas,
Asteria
Mexican turbos
Margaritas
Cerith
Couple nassari

Leave out the Nassarius (also a scavenger) but this is the list you want to restock. The top three are the best.

Trade the hermits back to the LFS before you do that or these snails will suffer the same fate.

IMO take care of the hermits and then your snails will take care of the algae.

But you need to take care of the algae by hand first and TOTALLY CLEAR spots on the rock.

IMO when you're removing algae, work in small 2"x2" areas so you can focus and remove ALL of the algae before you move on to a new area. When you're done with an area, gently take one of your algae eating snails and place him in that area.....they hunt by memory, so could be avoiding the area from it being overgrown.

As mentioned, I would remove ***all*** the excess filtration and carbon dosing from the equation until the tank is back on track. This will make it possible (easier) for competition to take over the rock from the algae.

Planting new corals in areas you clean is also a good potential move (optional compared to the rest of the suggestions tho) if your other corals are doing as good as they look in the pics!

Last, a UV filter or micron filter will kill (or filter out) the algae spores in the tank and slow or stop the spread of algae while you work on things.

Here's the best technique to remove the algae if it helps BTW:

Thanks but the video link is broken.

 

[Davem24]

Pictures of the tank?
Quantity of cuc members?

I'll try to take some with out all the glare and whiter lights later

As expected. As soon as I stopped treatment it's back with a vengeance.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Not to try to steer you to some 'miracle cure,' but when I was at my wit's end due to algae I used this, per the directions. It was a slow (week's long) process, but it did the trick and the various kinds of stubborn algae I had never came back. You can go to the manufacturer's website and read up, and see what you think. Best wishes.

 

[Reefering1]

As expected. As soon as I stopped treatment it's back with a vengeance.

A healthy tank should have some algea. Your's doesn't look bad at all, or am I missing something? Herbivores, get more.

 

[Skippy The Meh]

Thats not gha, thats bryopsis. Try flucanozol/ flux rx treatment. Just finished doing it on my tank, worked great.

 

[Davem24]

Thats not gha, thats bryopsis. Try flucanozol/ flux rx treatment. Just finished doing it on my tank, worked great.

Tried flux. Did nothing

 

[Davem24]

As expected. As soon as I stopped treatment it's back with a vengeance.

A healthy tank should have some algea. Your's doesn't look bad at all, or am I missing something? Herbivores, get more.

This is 1 week after finishing a 3week algaecide treatment because nothing ate it. The rock work was a mess and there was so much it was killing coral.

Point is even after aggressive treatment it's back and fast growing

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks but the video link is broken.

Maybe a temporary glitch or local issue? It looks OK here in the thread so maybe just try again?

 

[mcarroll]

This is 1 week after finishing a 3week algaecide treatment because nothing ate it. The rock work was a mess and there was so much it was killing coral.

Point is even after aggressive treatment it's back and fast growing

This just indicates that some fundamental(s) is still being overlooked or isn't quite fixed yet.

I may be repeating myself, but more snails (only herbivores) will be needed to keep clean areas clean.

To keep down the spread until you get the number of CUC right, I would deploy either micron filtration like the Marineland Polishing Filter or Paul B's DIY micron filter, or I'd deploy a UV filter. Or both.

 

[Skippy The Meh]

Thats not gha, thats bryopsis. Try flucanozol/ flux rx treatment. Just finished doing it on my tank, worked great.

How long did you run it for? How much did you dose? Did you turn off skimmer and carbon reactors? Did you do a follow up
Dose?

 

[Davem24]

This is 1 week after finishing a 3week algaecide treatment because nothing ate it. The rock work was a mess and there was so much it was killing coral.

Point is even after aggressive treatment it's back and fast growing

This just indicates that some fundamental(s) is still being overlooked or isn't quite fixed yet.

I may be repeating myself, but more snails (only herbivores) will be needed to keep clean areas clean.

To keep down the spread until you get the number of CUC right, I would deploy either micron filtration like the Marineland Polishing Filter or Paul B's DIY micron filter, or I'd deploy a UV filter. Or both.

I will try a UV filter. But the snails are not working..they starve to death (at least I'm pretty sure that's what's happening). They will not touch the stuff. Even after I thoroughly clean an area so they would only eat the very fine stuff. I've cleaned areas..put them there again and again and I can watch it grow back and they pass it by at all levels of growth.

 

[Davem24]

Thats not gha, thats bryopsis. Try flucanozol/ flux rx treatment. Just finished doing it on my tank, worked great.

How long did you run it for? How much did you dose? Did you turn off skimmer and carbon reactors? Did you do a follow up
Dose?

Reef flux, recommended dosage 2x in a row. Followed all directions. No skimmer no carbon.

 

[Davem24]

Thanks but the video link is broken.

Maybe a temporary glitch or local issue? It looks OK here in the thread so maybe just try again?

Ah yes its working now.

You really think the hermits are killing the snails? I mean I know it's possible I've never seen it and I've watched closely. Also my hermits are very small and have lots of options.

 

[Skippy The Meh]

Thats not gha, thats bryopsis. Try flucanozol/ flux rx treatment. Just finished doing it on my tank, worked great.

How long did you run it for? How much did you dose? Did you turn off skimmer and carbon reactors? Did you do a follow up
Dose?

Reef flux, recommended dosage 2x in a row. Followed all directions. No skimmer no carbon.

How long did you let it run before
Removing?

 

[Paul B]

I have way, way, way more algae than that and I wouldn't do anything. Algae is actually a sign of health as it grows on every reef in the sea, of course we don't want it covering our corals. It sometimes covers mine but if you keep a reef long enough you will see that everything in our tanks runs in cycles. Algae is one of those things.

It may show up for a few months or a year, then disappear with no help from you. People feel these chemical interventions work, but I think it's just a cycle and unless you do something stupid, it will leave on it's own.











I have been SCUBA diving for 50 years and it grows in every ocean in every sea. The only reason we don't see it much on the real reefs is due to all the algae eaters on the reef. And most of the creatures in the sea eat algae.

If there was no algae in the sea what would these creatures eat?











Your tank looks fine and natural. I wouldn't add any chemicals.