Biff0rz
Valuable Member
I noticed this cheap butt thing bubbling. Went to the other room and saw lights flickering. Then I saw sparks in the water!! I pulled it out asap. But my fish in qt are still in there. Do I put them in a new tank asap??
Is a heater catching fire under water dangerous to fish???
Brett S
Valuable Member
While it’s probably OK there’s also a chance that it could have contaminated the water with heavy metals or some unknown substance. Normally I’d suggest running carbon to try to pull anything out of the water, but given that it’s just a QT with a small quantity of water anyway I’d be inclined to just move the fish and dump the water to be safe.
For safety issues, move them. The heater could’ve popped and leeched the water. Had a heater blow years ago. Trust me when I say spend a few extra dollars for a heater.
If nothing came out from the heaters, you should be fine but I would chance it.
If nothing came out from the heaters, you should be fine but I would chance it.
Biff0rz
Valuable Member
Ok. Diffused the issue. So I'm a bit more calm. Is the heater smoking under water toxic to the fish? What do I do besides move them to another tank? I moved my light off the top of the tank you can see the smoke under it. I just prevented a house fire than God I was home and down here. Jesus. My whole basement smells of smoke and burnt electronics.
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Lightspeed
Active Member
well don't put your hand in there, turn off your mains and get that out, your water is now contaminated with all sorts of badness from plastics and metals, replace with a new heater immediately.
To answer your 1st question its dangerous to everything including you.
I would just clean out the tank, refill and carry on.
I would just clean out the tank, refill and carry on.
Biff0rz
Valuable Member
Yea I do not have one of those. I'll contact an electrician asap.GFCI and AFCI combo would be my recommendation. I also prefer to get this in the circuit breaker rather than a simple wall outlet... much more robust/reliable.
Also, props to you for being home! Think about everyday when you’re gone and how this could’ve happened. Make sure you make some changes ASAP! Never let this happen again! Stay safe!
Having an AFDD may have prevented this getting as bad as it did. I definitely agree with @Spieg that you should get one installed asap. Nothing's perfect so in practice they can miss arcing which can make people doubt them but I wouldn't get put off if you read that. Essentially it's quite difficult to accurately detect arc faults while also e.g. not tripping out for old motors so the manufacturers have to strike a balance. A lot of house fires are caused by arc faults so get it installed
.In the meantime I'd ventilate the heck out of the space so that whatever's in the air doesn't diffuse back into your tank. And stop breathing it in. I know the smell - I accidentally set fire to a compound mitre saw once - and it's truly awful!
Biff0rz
Valuable Member
Well, I mean it IS on a GFCI, it just didn't trip. I also caught it right when it started, So besides a better heater how else would I have known/prevented this besides installing an AFCI on top of it? To be clear, it's on a 15A GFCI outlet that's hooked up to a 15A circuit at the breaker.
Ok, thanks, that's a good idea. Do you recommend a specific one?
Your GFCI operated as designed at least in respect of an earth fault. GFCIs watch out for only electricity leaking out of what should be a closed circuit. If it is given the chance, electricity will always flow out of a closed circuit and off to earth. It appears from your photographs that the heater itself is not earthed (they don't tend to be), as it has only two conductors not three, and nothing else in your tank was. As such, when the heater failed and then melted there was no path to earth for the electricity to flow to. Without a path to earth, the GFCI cannot detect an imbalance in the current between the line (live) and neutral conductors so it would not trip. In other words, in order to trip a GFCI needs to be able to 'see' electricity 'escaping' out of a circuit but there was in your case no escape - it was 'stuck' inside the tank. Had you for example been wearing no shoes and been standing on the ground with wet feet, then placed your hand in the saltwater tank with all of its salty free ions, you would likely have provided the electricity with a near perfect path to earth and in theory either i) the GFCI should have tripped within a few milliseconds or ii) you would have experienced injury or death.
None of that answers why your breaker did not trip for either i) short circuit or ii) overload. I suspect that that is a matter of timing; you mentioned you were there when it happened. Had it been unattended, at some point we hope the breaker would have tripped for a short fault. Any competent electrician can test your breakers for you, and your GFCIs. They will also be able to suggest an appropriately rated GFCI if they are not happy with yours - I suggest 5 mA, but you may run into nuisance tripping and need a higher rating (even high quality devices tend to leak a tiny amount to earth and a lot of these adds up). The same point applies for the rating of your breaker - to trip a 15A breaker would require a heck of a lot of fault current (they actually trip somewhat higher than their rating). Again, this is easy stuff for a competent electrician.
Going forward I would suggest you get a Schego titanium heater because i) they are far more reliable than other heaters ii) they are earthed. However, for a titanium heater you'll need a temperature controller or an aquarium controller.
As to a ground probe, that's a hotly debated topic but yes in this case had you had one then your GFCI would almost certainly have tripped immediately and prevented the issue you've had to deal with. This is because a ground probe is an 'open door' - a permanent route to earth that is available to electricity to flow down, if there is a fault. If it's of any help at all, despite the endless debate I am of the view that your tank should be earthed and mine is so earthed.
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