Is a self sustained reef tank possible?

[nanomania]

Well cal alk mag can easily be manitained via dosing pumps, make a 1 or 2mnth stock.

Another semi self sustained method jus came to my mind is this:

As I find filter socks a pain to wash and reuse, rather a diy top filter with a filter floss mat is cheap and easy to maintain, just throw away and use a new mat. The finer particles will make great meal for pods in cheato chamber, a purigen reactor for keeping water crystal clear is to be changed every 6 months.. basically first chamber would have cheato, filter socks/ diy top filter with foam mat, sexond chanber would have dsb with mangroved and 2 to 3 tyoes of macro with few filter feeders a d the third chamber would have a return pump, if more space available then a marine pure block. Obvioisly the size of this kinda sump would be accoeding to the size of dt or livestock. I guess it needs to be tried and tested maybe we can try in a small 40g setup.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Well cal alk mag can easily be manitained via dosing pumps, make a 1 or 2mnth stock.

Another semi self sustained method jus came to my mind is this:

As I find filter socks a pain to wash and reuse, rather a diy top filter with a filter floss mat is cheap and easy to maintain, just throw away and use a new mat. The finer particles will make great meal for pods in cheato chamber, a purigen reactor for keeping water crystal clear is to be changed every 6 months.. basically first chamber would have cheato, filter socks/ diy top filter with foam mat, sexond chanber would have dsb with mangroved and 2 to 3 tyoes of macro with few filter feeders a d the third chamber would have a return pump, if more space available then a marine pure block. Obvioisly the size of this kinda sump would be accoeding to the size of dt or livestock. I guess it needs to be tried and tested maybe we can try in a small 40g setup.

I have seen recommendations that the refugium area should be at least 20% of the size of the display, if that helps you size it. The sump itself will need to be quite a bit larger. Filter floss works great but I have seen roller matts rising in popularity. You have heard it before but if you want to avoid water Changes I would hook up an oversized skimmer. If you want no maintenance you could get a skimmer swabby and drain line for the skimmer cup. I have seen the combination of roller Matt and skimmer take out insane amounts of organics that may aid in your goals. Adding an algae scrubber in addition to fuge could also aid in nutrient export. A purigen reactor sounds promising as well though. Seems like it's coming together but be light on the stocking.

 

[nanomania]

I have seen recommendations that the refugium area should be at least 20% of the size of the display, if that helps you size it. The sump itself will need to be quite a bit larger. Filter floss works great but I have seen roller matts rising in popularity. You have heard it before but if you want to avoid water Changes I would hook up an oversized skimmer. If you want no maintenance you could get a skimmer swabby and drain line for the skimmer cup. I have seen the combination of roller Matt and skimmer take out insane amounts of organics that may aid in your goals. Adding an algae scrubber in addition to fuge could also aid in nutrient export. A purigen reactor sounds promising as well though. Seems like it's coming together but be light on the stocking.

Well the roller mat currently are way too over priced, the system wont be called a self sustained system if we include a skimmer. Yes, instead of a 20% fuge, we can go for 40% fuge, so i added a cheato chamber with another fuge.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Well I was thinking that you could drain the skimmer cup directly into a drain or large container which could be emptied with a diaphragm pump on a timer into a drain somewhere in the garage or something. With that you would only need to clean the skimmer pump out when you clean your powerheads and return pump bi annually. The roller mats are super overpriced right now but I have seen some DIY options that are more affordable. I have been super impressed by the roller mat design and its ability to really remove detritus. I have a healthy amount of skepticism about the whole thing but I am very interested to see your project! Definitely make a build thread and post more details about the build as you decide on equipment, setup and stocking.

 

[mcarroll]

Wish I knew where I read it, but someone did an experiment with a simple bioload like snails and plants in a large closed system. Diversity gets lower over time, but with low stocking levels the system never crashes.

This model applies to coral zooxanthellae....higher nutrient levels lead to higher zoox. density....which makes them more susceptible to bleaching stressors/crashing.

People are steady in denial about it (I guess thanks to looking at TOTM pictures?), but high population density is a factor in most of the fish wipeouts you read about.

Low population density is the best thing you can do toward a self-sustaining tank.

 

[Nano sapiens]

People are steady in denial about it (I guess thanks to looking at TOTM pictures?), but high population density is a factor in most of the fish wipeouts you read about.

Low population density is the best thing you can do toward a self-sustaining tank.

I see this a lot where the fish density is really high per given volume of water. Yes, it looks more like a reef would in nature, but if anything goes awry it can very quickly turn into a disaster.

Which reminds me of the old saying, "Just because we can do it...doesn't mean we should!"

 

[nanomania]

Well I was thinking that you could drain the skimmer cup directly into a drain or large container which could be emptied with a diaphragm pump on a timer into a drain somewhere in the garage or something. With that you would only need to clean the skimmer pump out when you clean your powerheads and return pump bi annually. The roller mats are super overpriced right now but I have seen some DIY options that are more affordable. I have been super impressed by the roller mat design and its ability to really remove detritus. I have a healthy amount of skepticism about the whole thing but I am very interested to see your project! Definitely make a build thread and post more details about the build as you decide on equipment, setup and stocking.

Yes I too like the roller mats, but im pathetic at diy stuff other than the leds. Leds are easy.

 

[SantaMonica]

To me self sustainable means adding nothing. No food at all.

Me too. If livestock are all algal herbivores, a balance will be reached where growth of algae equal consumption of algae. And if a reef, just dose your Cal, Alk, Mag.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Me too. If livestock are all algal herbivores, a balance will be reached where growth of algae equal consumption of algae. And if a reef, just dose your Cal, Alk, Mag.

I agree, but I think he is trying to do a "No Water Change Reef".

 

[jerseypete]

Me too. If livestock are all algal herbivores, a balance will be reached where growth of algae equal consumption of algae. And if a reef, just dose your Cal, Alk, Mag.

That would never happen. It's impossible.

I see this a lot where the fish density is really high per given volume of water. Yes, it looks more like a reef would in nature, but if anything goes awry it can very quickly turn into a disaster.

Which reminds me of the old saying, "Just because we can do it...doesn't mean we should!"

 

[spartanman22]

I pretty much ran a system like this for years. It was a 75 gallon display with a 75 gallon sump. I did have a skimmer but it was one of those coralife super skimmers. So basically no skimmer. About 75% of the sump was a fuge that was lit with one of the 250w Spotlight halogens from Home Depot. I'd have to empty about 1 five gallon bucket of Chaeto every 1-2 weeks.

Once I got into more SPS I did have to start supplementing all and calcium. If you have stony corals it's impossible to keep a self sustained reef without either doing frequent water changes (which contradicts a "self-sustained" setup) or dosing trace elements.

 

[nanomania]

I pretty much ran a system like this for years. It was a 75 gallon display with a 75 gallon sump. I did have a skimmer but it was one of those coralife super skimmers. So basically no skimmer. About 75% of the sump was a fuge that was lit with one of the 250w Spotlight halogens from Home Depot. I'd have to empty about 1 five gallon bucket of Chaeto every 1-2 weeks.

Once I got into more SPS I did have to start supplementing all and calcium. If you have stony corals it's impossible to keep a self sustained reef without either doing frequent water changes (which contradicts a "self-sustained" setup) or dosing trace elements.

Yes im not looking for sps, jus hardy softies and lps. Dosing supps like cal alk mag and trace only for corals and fishes. I guess 2 small tangs like tomini, 2 to 3 bottom dwellers like gobies, a pair of clown and few snails urchins shrimps for live stock.

Do u have any vids or pics of that system?

 

[nanomania]

I pretty much ran a system like this for years. It was a 75 gallon display with a 75 gallon sump. I did have a skimmer but it was one of those coralife super skimmers. So basically no skimmer. About 75% of the sump was a fuge that was lit with one of the 250w Spotlight halogens from Home Depot. I'd have to empty about 1 five gallon bucket of Chaeto every 1-2 weeks.

Once I got into more SPS I did have to start supplementing all and calcium. If you have stony corals it's impossible to keep a self sustained reef without either doing frequent water changes (which contradicts a "self-sustained" setup) or dosing trace elements.

Yes im not looking for sps, jus hardy softies and lps. Dosing supps like cal alk mag and trace only for corals and fishes. I guess 2 small tangs like tomini, 2 to 3 bottom dwellers like gobies, a pair of clown and few snails urchins shrimps for live stock.

Do u have any vids or pics of that system?

 

[spartanman22]

I'd have to dig through my photobucket account. I'll try to find some for you. It was pretty heavily stocked. Scopas tang, rabbitfish, Lamarcks angel, potters angel, two clowns, yellow coris wrasse, vroliks wrasse, mandarin, and a black velvet angel.

 

[nanomania]

I'd have to dig through my photobucket account. I'll try to find some for you. It was pretty heavily stocked. Scopas tang, rabbitfish, Lamarcks angel, potters angel, two clowns, yellow coris wrasse, vroliks wrasse, mandarin, and a black velvet angel.

Wow.. thts heavy..

 

[spartanman22]

Ya I was pushing the boundaries for sure. I eventually got rid of the black velvet angel. But I had no aggression and my nitrates and phosphates were always very low.

 

[nanomania]

Ya I was pushing the boundaries for sure. I eventually got rid of the black velvet angel. But I had no aggression and my nitrates and phosphates were always very low.

Sounds good

 

[nanomania]

Well guys, today iv added 4 clowns in my 42g which has a mimic yellow tang baby and a ywg. Also have a mandarin in sump (a rescue).. cant call it fully self systained, but i have no skimmer nor done a wc since past 6mnths except during acclimation of new fishes.
Just cheato and filter floss for filteration. With 1 inch layer of aragonite sand 1mm to 1.5mm size and aprox 20kg lr

 

[ReeferReefer]

Glad it's working for you but how are you exporting nutrients? Without viable nutrient export it sounds like a ticking time bomb. I would be surprised if cheato is enough without a very large fuge.

 

[nanomania]

Glad it's working for you but how are you exporting nutrients? Without viable nutrient export it sounds like a ticking time bomb. I would be surprised if cheato is enough without a very large fuge.

Well ill be testing this weekend.. lets see. i feed only 1ce a day. Have ordered seAchem phyto, will be doswd 1ce a week 4ml right on cheato, that would i guess give a boost in pod population.. lets see. Keeping fingerw crossed..