Is my tank cycled???

[IndianaReef]

My tank has been cycling with live rock for 17 days now. Early on I had a spike in nitrate, and since my salinity is 0.024, ammonia has sat at a constant rate of 0.5, my nitrite sometimes goes to 0.25, but then quickly back to 0, and my nitrate remains at 0 since the spike. I know 0 ammonia is ideal, but since there is so much life already in the tank (including a filter feeding sea cucumber doing fairly well) is it safe to say that adding a few small fish likely won't crash my tank. I also added a hearty amount of Ph buffer just to get it into that 8.3 area right after taking this picture. Attached are the pictures of the tests. I feel as though I should also mention that I experienced a diatom outbreak about a week ago, and looks to be turning to green algae now. Thanks heaps!

 

[IndianaReef]

Also dosed with nitrifying bacteria about a week ago just to be safe**

 

[ReefGamer]

Your tank is definitely still cycling. Nitrite should always be zero and stay zero. Your nitrates will rise when it gets converted. You also know ammonia needs to be zero. I would wait 2 more weeks then see about adding a fish. Also, PH buffer is not very good.. it will shoot your ALK really high and no one tells you this ( I found out the hard way). Of course that is more for coral.

 

[ReefGamer]

That PH is also definitely not 8.3 as the buffer should get I to and you said you added a lot. I stopped using the buffer and and I don’t even check Ph anymore, it stays in the range on its own in a good tank. But you should check it just to see if you have problems with it maintaining itself due to problems you may not know you have.

 

[IndianaReef]

okay thanks

That PH is also definitely not 8.3 as the buffer should get I to and you said you added a lot. I stopped using the buffer and and I don’t even check Ph anymore, it stays in the range on its own in a good tank. But you should check it just to see if you have problems with it maintaining itself due to problems you may not know you have.

 

[brandon429]

This link says your cycle is done since you only moved cycled rocks among tanks

let me know what you think
Link also shows why all the test readings above are wrong (only seneye works, but you don’t need one)

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Cell]

Cycled. False positive from API ammonia is well known.

 

[brandon429]

I never know if someone used true live rocks or just any rock added is called live as a hobby moniker right up until I saw the cucumber hitchhiker and mention of life / algae transitions

cycled because they rode in on submerged rock, and cycled cuz they’re not currently dead lemme see the tank pics I’ve got threads to back edit this one into

‘morning cell / 7 am troubleshooting, check lol

 

[LiamPM]

Cycled. False positive from API ammonia is well known.

I agree the tanks cycled.....Although thats not an API ammonia test kit either.

P.S. Dont chase Ph, it will level out and stabilise itself to your house and surroundings in time.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed I wouldn't mess with ph for a long while in a new reef, or ever. Never tested my pH once in my 14yr nano. Api tends to show .25 and red sea tends to show .2, in nearly all posts

but seneye wouldn't agree with either one, and the visual biology we will see from upcoming pics is the right referee: pigmented rocks vs bone white, attached growths that take longer than a cycling chart shows nitrifiers take to seat in... animals that take up residence long after cycling completes

In fact our hobby made up the occurrence of the mini cycle to make up for these .2/.25 misreads.

I believe KP aquatics rock recycles due to dieoff because it's mailed in sealed bags. And we also don't need a test kit to know... smell is top giveaway

After pics lol how does this reef smell? Normal, I'll bet. Or the cuc would be deceased

 

[ReefGamer]

I am very confused how you guys think the rank is cycled after two weeks and then tell everyone else two months at the LEAST. True live rock or not..( highly doubt it’s live rock straight from the ocean). The ammonia reading is not an API either, which is why I would consider it.

The nitrite is the most concerning to me and should always be 0.. I would not trust my tank until that is stable.

i would assume the Fritz is what is causing this “ life” to be seen and not because of stabilization? Like adding copepods to the tank.

I would listen to them more than me, I’m relatively new still and learning. Curious though!

 

[brandon429]

consider that link above lemme know if it makes sense here
we cover test misreading, and how nitrite should never be factored into any cycle in reefing, ever.


*we expect a clash between old cycling rules and new ones, thats our evolution of practice right up close.

there's nothing wrong with the old guard but they're too slow and they oversell bottle bac where it isn't needed, taking our cash.



its ok to use what MACNA conventions use to start 500 reefs on time, we're using that science. MACNA gets to break all the rules to sell us stuff, and we now break the rules so that our tanks can do things by the date we expect.

a MACNA convention speed cycle is every bit as strong as a 60 day waited cycle, because both systems can pass a 100% water change and still perform ammonia oxidation/
(nobody moved a full reef to macna they moved it in parts and set up with new water)


unaffected by 100% water change is the new definition of a completed cycle, and the other portion is that we never use API to find zero ammonia we must use the test a different way to make it work. a way not on the instructions. we could use liquid ammonia to move his tester up, then it will move back down overnite, but thats contraindicated here due to the presence of life in a skip cycle system.

we would just reef and continue and toss out the nitrite and ammonia tests here for the rest of the tank's life.


It is confusing when random internet people make new rules no denial there

 

[ScottR]

I am very confused how you guys think the rank is cycled after two weeks and then tell everyone else two months at the LEAST. True live rock or not..( highly doubt it’s live rock straight from the ocean). The ammonia reading is not an API either, which is why I would consider it.

The nitrite is the most concerning to me and should always be 0.. I would not trust my tank until that is stable.

i would assume the Fritz is what is causing this “ life” to be seen and not because of stabilization? Like adding copepods to the tank.

I would listen to them more than me, I’m relatively new still and learning. Curious though!

I just started a 130g tank about a month ago. I got it wet and salt in same day. Added MB7 and some true live rock (only a few pieces). I added in fish 2 days later. The nitrogen cycle is fast these days with the bacteria we have available. I personally don’t trust API for reef tanks.

*You can click my build thread for info on my tank* I have kept many saltwater tanks in my day. I can tell you that cycling is very misunderstood.

However, I don’t recommend going out and stocking your tank to the max. Have a good stocking plan in hand beforehand.

I’ve followed @brandon429 threads for quite awhile here. He’s really on point about cycling issues.

 

[brandon429]

Indiana reef we r gonna need those tank pictures right about 6 am heh

the only fun part of cycling is predicting status off description snippets

 

[ReefGamer]

did u see that link above lemme know if it makes sense here


*we expect a clash between old cycling rules and new ones, thats our evolution of practice right up close.

there's nothing wrong with the old guard but they're too slow



its ok to use what MACNA conventions use to start 500 reefs on time, we're using that science.

I read it, I guess it depends on the rock. I think they would have said they transferred the rock If that is what they did instead of buying ‘live’ rock from the store. Maybe no difference, not sure. The OP just started getting algae and it is just the one type, from what I have read and been given advice is that you usually deal with all the cycling algae first as part of the “cycle” stage.

I don’t have doubt aclownfish or damsel would survive in it right now. But it would say 60/40. I couldn’t keep a fish alive until a little after two months, now every fish I put in survives. I did NOT use turbo start though or anything, I DID have tons of live established rock the previous owner had in the tank.

 

[ScottR]

I read it, I guess it depends on the rock. I think they would have said they transferred the rock If that is what they did instead of buying ‘live’ rock from the store. Maybe no difference, not sure. The OP just started getting algae and it is just the one type, from what I have read and been given advice is that you usually deal with all the cycling algae first as part of the “cycle” stage.

I don’t have doubt aclownfish or damsel would survive in it right now. But it would say 60/40. I couldn’t keep a fish alive until a little after two months, now every fish I put in survives. I did NOT use turbo start though or anything, I DID have tons of live established rock the previous owner had in the tank.

Here’s a pic of true live rock on the left (from the Philippines) and man made rock on the right. Both have been in my tank for 1 month. You can see how the live rock has resisted algae growth while the right is growing hair algae really quickly. I typically don’t trust live rock as truly being “live” just because it has been wet. Real live rock should mostly have been in the ocean IMO. Or a really well-developed system/tank.

 

[brandon429]

its cycled some time ago agreed

edit I thought that was the op's rock.

 

[LiamPM]

I am very confused how you guys think the rank is cycled after two weeks and then tell everyone else two months at the LEAST. True live rock or not..( highly doubt it’s live rock straight from the ocean). The ammonia reading is not an API either, which is why I would consider it.

The nitrite is the most concerning to me and should always be 0.. I would not trust my tank until that is stable.

i would assume the Fritz is what is causing this “ life” to be seen and not because of stabilization? Like adding copepods to the tank.

I would listen to them more than me, I’m relatively new still and learning. Curious though!

I never really understood how people put a time frame on a cycle to begin with, i guess its just a safety recommendation but honestly speaking no cycle has a time frame, its all independent of the individual tank and chemistry. Ive seen tanks started with dry everything and no source of waste added that sat for months with people wondering why it wasnt cycling..... This was because they read it just takes time, which is incorrect, it takes a waste source AND time. (or a bottled bacteria and no time)

I called it cycled purely on the fact he had a NITRATE spike. This is the end result of the nitrogen cycle so his tank 100% has the bacteria to deal with waste. On what level we do not know but Nitrate can only come from the process of breaking down waste in an empty tank so the nitrogen cycle is doing its thing correctly.

NITRITE is zero to me in that image but at the same time is not as harmful to inhabitants as people read so wouldn't be a worry for me(I suspect its just API registering incorrectly anyway).

The be all for me is that once you see NITRATE, that only appeared because ammonia was converted to nitrite then to nitrate so you have a completed cycle. I personally would add a source of waste to confirm its working at a good enough level myself, however the bacteria you need is there in some form. Go slow, and itll be fine.

Ive used true live rock a few times and with very little out of water time it has its own minimal die off and bacteria to deal with on its own hence no real need for a cycle so to speak.

 

[brandon429]

but we need timeframes that are dependable, that's what brings on the new rules.


we need to know that cycles can't undo, or get weaker, or scare us with unpredictability

they just stick in place, naturally


reef conventions have to start on time

when I take my reef apart to clean it, I need to know when its safe to add bioload back

if someone wants to relocate their reef to a new house, they need to know when the reassembly is allowed

and then lastly, if someone wants to take petco rock that has coralline on it, some algae, a couple fanworms, some vermitid spikes, and move that home--its ok for them to know a recycle isn't required.

we specifically save money on bottle bac sales knowing the new rules. we dont buy it more than once, and we dont add it to live rock skip cycle setups because those are genuine, no consequence skip cycle setups.


How harsh is this treatment of rocks and corals, compared to a ride home in a petco bag:

drag through that vid so you dont wait for 33 mins. its a 33 min air contact drain of my entire reef rocks and corals brittle stars and rock worms.


12 hours later, didnt recycle, no worms harmed this has happened hundreds of times not just once in the video above:

 

[brandon429]

Old cycling rules allow for none of that.

*a hidden fact is that old cycling rules are the cause of about 90% of the invasions currently asking for help in the nuisance algae forum, though those items would seem unconnected. following old cycling rules has the irony of extending out the allowed start time while shortening the overall lifespan before invasion loss or near loss (the uglies phase is directly tied to cycling in the old rules, the two are unconnected events, being under invasion has nothing to do with handling nh3, the sole reason for cycling)

the benefit of new cycling rules is ageless reefs that run uninvaded and never have to be tested for ammonia from day 1 to day 4000 even when mishandled. nh3 is the most predictable compound in all of reefing it never, ever ever ever has to be tested for in a reef tank unless we just love the torture of seeing tenths ppm heh seneye elitist joke