Is Reefing Dying?

[chipmunkofdoom2]

seems like I come on here and there are less and less post and when there are post it’s about getting out. What gives. Is Reefing dead. What’s killing the hobby. I think it’s greed. This hobby is expensive enough but when people start charging $800 for a 1/4” frag that’s when people start going away. Most pieces are common now and have circulated many tanks. So why the need to charge $100 for something common like a setosa or green slimer. With all these mushroom crazes people get crazy with prices. At the end of the day I think greed is killing the hobby. Oh well just my take since there’s nothing else on here to read about might as well stir the pot a bit. Happy Reefing.

I don't think vendors arbitrarily decide to charge $800 for a frag. They set a price and see what the market demand supports. If there's a lot of demand, then they set the prices higher next time. If there's not a lot of demand, they set the prices lower next time.

I think the main issue is that reefing has never been more accessible. People see a nice looking reef tank on Instagram or Reddit and they do some Googling. They stumble upon a reefing forum and on a whim, they piece together a system, order the parts and set it up. Newcomers have no clue how much work a reef tank can be. If you don't absolutely love it, you're not going to put up with the hassle. You may read about how much work a reef tank is and think you can handle it, but many people just don't have the time, patience or resources to work through failures and always put their tanks first. I feel like it was much harder to get into the hobby before reefing forums and the Internet. As a result, the only reefers who made it into the hobby were the ones who searched high and low scraps and shreds of information. It makes sense that someone this dedicated would stay in the hobby. Conversely, it also makes sense that someone who gets into the hobby on an impulse may not be in for so long.

The price thing is definitely a problem too, I think. I personally think this extends to equipment as well. But that's a different topic for another thread.

 

[HB AL]

I've had a tank or two running for 30 years now. I keep it simple, manually dose, no controllers or such lights are most expensive things I've purchased and buy nice little frags of not so expensive corals that look great to me and and enjoy keeping alive and growing, my fish actually are my favorite next to the corals. I've learned to keep it simple, gotta go now and feed the fish.

 

[Jdgreef24]

I think if the maintenance and time required becomes an issue, you have to wonder why you entered the hobby in the first place. For me, I enjoy working on my tank and seeing it thrive. Sure I get frustrated, but who doesn't. People in this hobby will buy the most expensive equipment and have no idea how to use it. Buy corals and not know how to care for them. I have freshwater fish as well so it's double maintenance for me. It's just something I enjoy. So, I definitely think that people lose interest and probably because this is far from an easy hobby but, there are many who embrace it and figure out how to endure.

This is true. I've started and shut down 3 tanks now in maybe 8 years due to circumstance but the resolve to one day have a slightly purplish dancing cube of fat multi-headed ocean things has never left me. The hobby has always made me so happy that I've always had my mind on it way a mechanic does a project car. Have I ever been able to afford it? Pff no. Have I ever kept a clam or a mandarin? No. But I'll keep at it because I'm the weirdo sitting in the dark in front of lit box of water with a beer and a grin. Always reading. Always probing the forums. I can only hope that there's enough people like that to keep passion in the game and the hobby alive. Resolve is key. After time it just becomes something you can count on. Like marriage! Tank maintenance is called "husbandry" after all. Don't get a tank divorce!

 

[5altkreep]

but the resolve to one day have a slightly purplish dancing cube of fat multi-headed ocean things has never left me.

Haha! This may be the best line in this whole thread!

 

[pecan2phat]

Come on Franky, 38 years and I'm still at it. It's an addiction that I would actually like to kick

 

[Fumanchu]

I have to say that I have Been jerked by a couple of people by buying overpriced frags cause i was Naive and inexperienced Then I saw It online for probly half the price. Then another gripe of mine I have is that you find these people buying these Equipments using them for a x amount of months and selling them for almost the same price they paid for like why would I pay you $300 and it cause 350 id rather pay an extra $50 buy it brand new and get a warranty where i come from used stuff is normally half the price because it's used .... and if it's really 3 months old sell it with the receipt. But lightly used is on every sell thread .Smh

 

[Matthew Frost]

I'm just getting into this hobby and I find the whole idea of my own little ocean very relaxing. I have no misconceptions on the cost and work involved. I have assembled everything I have thus far from "previously reefed" sources. I think the biggest thing that pushes people out is life circumstances change. You have kids, you change jobs, get a divorce etc. Life happens and people are forced to choose to invest time, energy and capital in other things. I think the truly passionate always find their way back.

 

[Piranhapat]

Usually when the weather gets colder we tend to stay inside more. Which most likely pay more attention to our tanks. For some people that get out maybe they don't have time or Patience. Either your love is for fish or corals or both. Theirs no better hobby for me. Even with the ups and downs. Theirs always a challenge. Nothing like owning a piece of the ocean in our home. Thats what make this hobby so great.

 

[Paulywalnuts]

Even after the tens of thousands I have thrown out over the years.... my passion is stronger then ever. I think a lot of newbies have no idea of the financial burden, time commitment, and constant up and downs that are required to operate a thriving reef system. This is a costly hobby. I see a lot of people try to cut corners. My advice to any new people is to make sure you have expendable income. At the shows, I love to talk with new reefers and constantly push these reef forums on them to educate themselves. There is tons of free information here and there. A lot of times
It’s trial and error. Many cases you need to waste a lot of money learning things the hard way.

 

[ca1ore]

I believe you have your "long-termers" who have great patience and have taken their time to set up their tanks...and therefore remain in the hobby for years.

Thank you for not using the term 'old-timers'. I think every hobby has its committed and its transients ... and waxes and wanes. I recall reading a while back that the median time in the hobby was less than two years. No idea if that's true or not, but there are certainly lots of 'short-termers'. I've been keeping reef tanks since abut 1988, and I've had my down moments; to the point that I dropped out of the hobby for four years. But I couldn't stay out. I think absurd prices don't help, but as consumers ..... don't pay. Not sure I'd use club or forum participation as a proxy for interest though. That the LFS is disappearing is less a function of interest and more about the better economics of online. FFM was well attended last time, and Reefapalooza was packed. I went to the first few MACNA's back in 198..something; lots more people now than then. I personally dropped out of CTARS really only because the meetings were too far away and I literally never made even one of them. But, I have no plans to quit ..... exhibit A .....

 

[alton]

Most of my reefer friends are no longer in the hobby, it is sad. Coral and liverock are cheaper and better than ever. Liverock and corals at my best store in 2000

 

[Michael Llabona]

I've been in the hobby for three years. I didn't truly start enjoying it until recently. I stopped chasing the crazy numbers and just stuck to a routine maintenance to keep things stable. I stopped buying any "expensive" corals (anything over 50). All I want now is to see my tank mature and grow. My 90 has been set up for about 6 months.

 

[goodefx]

I have to say that I have Been jerked by a couple of people by buying overpriced frags cause i was Naive and inexperienced Then I saw It online for probly half the price. Then another gripe of mine I have is that you find these people buying these Equipments using them for a x amount of months and selling them for almost the same price they paid for like why would I pay you $300 and it cause 350 id rather pay an extra $50 buy it brand new and get a warranty where i come from used stuff is normally half the price because it's used .... and if it's really 3 months old sell it with the receipt. But lightly used is on every sell thread .Smh

Your all over it and I say the same thing all the time. When I sell my used stuff it's usually half what I paid for it!

 

[IxTCxI]

Reefing will never die. If you truly love this hobby and if you quit you will always come back at some point. You know it =)

 

[jda]

It is not the frag prices. IMO, it is the false promises, shilling and advertising by a lot of the newer manufacturers and suppliers combined with the inexperience of all the given advice. There is no secret that when people had a berlin-style tank with 100% known commodity lights, that most people were happy and had far more successes once they got some patience.

Potential and supposition has replaced tried and true. Infomercials have replaced books. Loudest and most persistent internet posters with Dunning-Kruger Effect have replaced experience and knowledge.

Dead/dry rock has caused a lot of bad experiences for people. False promises from LEDs have too. Either are fine, but they were not represented for what they are and this leads to too many failures... those people leave the hobby.

All of this being said, the most harmful thing to this hobby, IMO, is that the truly great will not post anymore since they cannot stand to argue with the thumb-suckers with a few-month-old biocube with boogers on frag plugs. I don't blame them, but it is a shame.

 

[kamike91]

I've only entered the hobby in the last few years, but I've asked people the same thing. They all said fragging is what spiraled things out of control. He tells me he remembers when euphyllia starter colonies went from $20 to $25 and thought no one is going to pay more, they've always been $20 for however many heads comes on it. "Back in the day" a frag was what we now consider a mini colony. No one really named corals either. They just grew until they became a problem, were broken up and given away. But now, omg is that an "ultra soooper house fire staff of gandolph" (that you happened to just name on your own). Oh you're charging $700 for a shave off one of the polyp holes, it must be awesome!" I've personally had some crazy awesome wild SPS colonies in the past. Tips would randomly get broken off and in the sand, and I wouldnt even think or care. Then I see people on FB groups selling "frags" that are just tiny little tips where there is more super glue on the plug than coral and they're charging stupid amounts for pieces that arent even worth picking out of the sand. My LFS sometimes gets caught up into it also. He just tried to get me to buy some japanese gobies or whatever, and I said I dont want them because I'm not a fan. "oh but they're rare!" .....Yeah i dont care. I like what looks good and isnt inflated because of the "ultra" tag.
I just buy what looks good at a good price for me now. I also dont try to build a "dream tank" of coral anymore. All these crazy sps tanks you see jam packed from sand to lights with colonies, every single one I've read up on afterwards has "crashed" and been wiped out.

Your post was so true it made me laugh. Sad thing is I keep falling for those expensive rainbow surprise home wrecker unicorn sticks of destiny limited edition 2 polyps for some $250 or more.

 

[Greybeard]

I won't pretend to be an expert, but I've been in and around this hobby for a while, something north of 30 years. It's a low percentage game. Not many people willing to invest the time, effort, and money it takes to be successful. Thus, the >90% failure rate. You've really got to enjoy the PROCESS, not the result, in order to be willing to invest so much in a hobby. Yeah, I enjoy looking at my tank, but I also enjoy working on my tank, updating, feeding, dosing, cleaning... just about everything except water changes (nobody enjoys water changes, do they?). It's a HOBBY. Everyone complains about how expensive it is... Go read some of the micro or jar reef threads. It doesn't have to be expensive... You can jump in with a small, used AIO system, and be successful, albeit on a smaller scale, without spending a truck load of cash. What you _will_ need to spend is TIME. If you're unable (or unwilling) to spend the time, do the research, make the effort to learn about these micro ecology experiments we're trying to maintain, your chances of being successful are slim.

No, reefing isn't dying... but it's not really growing in popularity, either... and it's not likely to. Until somebody comes up with a cheap, reliable 'Aquascum 2003'. And really... if it were that easy, would any of US still be here? Think it through... if your idiot cousin could go buy a tank and filter for a couple hundred bucks, and in a few months, with no effort, have it look just like the TOTM photos we all drool over... would you really be interested? I wouldn't. It's the CHALLENGE that keeps up our interest over the long haul. If it were suddenly simple, I'd have to find something else to spend my time doing. Happily, I don't see that happening any time soon.

That said... I will not pay outrageous prices for a coral frag. Don't care what it looks like. Back when Obama was trying to get another gun ban passed, there was a company selling used GI 30 round AR magazines for $129 each. Worth about $6. I will _NEVER AGAIN_ purchase from that company. Nor will I spend my money with coral vendors who try and squeeze every cent they can out of the latest, hottest, silly named coral frag.

 

[ca1ore]

Your all over it and I say the same thing all the time. When I sell my used stuff it's usually half what I paid for it!

First law of used crap ...... people expect to get more for their used gear then they'd be willing to pay for yours. The simple answer is: don't play. I get accused all the time of low-balling, and I just say back that I'm fair-balling. I won't pay more than 50% for anything that's over a year old. Not because I'm cheap but because anything above that it's just better to buy new. Caveat emptor.

 

[acro-ed]

There are lots of factors at play, but I don't think it's an ebb of the entire hobby, just that there are more people "cycling through" (lots of newbies starting up while others are quitting).

Quality equipment is expensive, but I would argue that it is actually cheaper in the long run now that reliable and proven hardware exists. I can't tell you how many different skimmers/pumps/lights, etc. that I've gone through since the 90's, whereas now you can select from a broad range of quality components that are proven and only buy once. That's an enormous benefit.

Corals ARE more expensive nowadays but far healthier overall. There was a comment earlier about $25 Euphyllias back in the day...that's true, but how many arrived covered in brown jelly and died; how many died soon thereafter? I remember the days of paying $50 for a medium acro colony and it was the size of a softball, but long term survival was sketchy.

Then of course there is the trendy marketing BS. Nowadays every clown that opens a box comes up with a name and we are chalk full of duplicative (and also duplicitous) names. I even see it on here where purveyors and patrons are both "duped" into thinking they have something unique or rare, when it is actually the same old thing with con-job lighting or strange looking color or growth that is still, genetically, something quite common. It is comical that these people think they have something "ultra rare" when they unpack that one "gem" from their box....and they give it a wonderfully ridiculous name. Then hundreds of other retailers unpack similar boxes and a few dozen who are "into" the marketing game give this same exact coral dozens of additional trade names.

This sort of BS makes the "hobby" seem like a machine designed to separate people from their money, and it IS a turnoff. This "trend" has driven people away from the hobby, but we're still only talking about a small fraction of hobbyists that even "play" into this.

I think the number #1 cause of people leaving the hobby is "efficiency" of their time. They came to the hobby accepting that it would cost time and money, and they allocated both. What they failed to do was to keep learning. They define "learning" as reading what components to buy, without understanding "how" different tanks work and react and the chemistry/biology behind it. You can get pretty far nowadays with a short list of components and a pile of money, but once there is an actual "problem" you need to know what you're doing, and this is where a lot of people come up short and decide it's not worth it. Some people remain willfully ignorant to what is going on inside of their little glass box of money and then they end up wasting far more time and money that they needed to.... that scenario has and will continue to make people quit.

-Ed

 

[ca1ore]

I don't think vendors arbitrarily decide to charge $800 for a frag. They set a price and see what the market demand supports. If there's a lot of demand, then they set the prices higher next time. If there's not a lot of demand, they set the prices lower next time.

That's about the silliest thing I've ever read, next you're going to be arguing supply and demand ...... oh ...... uh, well, never mind ....

PS - Marketing 101, say something is 'RARE' (in caps), give it a high price and the sheeple will buy.