Is the most up to date apex from 2016?

[Chrisv.]

Sounds like you got many years of service from your old legacy controller that you currently have, and yet you still have second thoughts with getting the newer model from that company. If you get 12 or more years out of a new head unit, then I think thats a good upgrade.

Here are my thoughts on the APEX to look at this from a different view than you currently do.

I actually had their initial controller then upgraded to the legacy and rode that thing out till the saltwater eroded the head unit out. I sent it in to get fixed and they had a program where if they couldn't fix it...then they would give you discount replacement price. Unfortunately, at that time they no longer made them. So I just had to buy a new 2016 head unit on sale. Not sure they offer those now.

Lets face it. That is great when a company lets legacy users upgrade their product by buying just a head unit. you can keep all your old stuff and its completely compatible. Apex has been around for long time and they stand by their products and it seems like they try to keep all generation of users on the same playing field as far as interoperability and functionality. Its kind of "If its not broken, then dont fix it". They have come out with lots of new stuff for the APEX since 2016, and everything always hooks up to their head unit. No need to go buy a "2022 Model" to hook up their new "XYZ"., and have to shell out dollars and dollars just for the latest and greatest attachment.

Well anyway. Thats my take. You got me thinking about my Energy bars on my display. They are older than your head unit and they are still going strong.

As some one said. The newest one out is probably the CoralVue hydros in 2019. You may want to give that a try, if you just like to have the shinny new thing on the block as far as a head unit. I think it will be more of an investment as you will have to scrap some of your old equipment as I'm sure it will not be compatible outside of a probe I would think. If you do go that route. It would be interesting to see a review of the legacy Apex to the CoralVue hydros in your eyes to see which one you like the best. The 12 year work horse or the new one. Keeps us updated on the decision.

I really like my old apex. It's not that I'm always looking for the latest and greatest, but I do feel that technology is always advancing. It's a big expense and I'd rather not buy new at the end of a development cycle.

As you point out, the apex I have has served me very well. I think the first option will be to try to repair that unit. There are both software and hardware fixes that I can attempt, and I'm not afraid to break out the soldering iron. If that works, then I will probably just continue with my current "classic" unit until the next major issue, or until there is a new version worth diving in for. If I'm not able to fix it, I will be look for a used base unit. Like you said, I can still use all of my other apex hardware with the new base unit and enjoy many of the benefits of the current generation controller (like native wifi!).

 

[mtraylor]

@gbru316

Looks like you have solved that with sweet setup. Just FYI. You can use the slider at the top of the data to view about 3 months worth so you dont have to go to your archives. Its better than the week shown on the screen for quick view.

 

[areefer01]

With regards to data retention in Fusion if you haven't send them a ticket or email with the suggestion. I'm sure it has been noted before but could be a low priority. More users requesting it may bump it up.

Not using the stack you noted I do have mine being collected and stored away in my influx db for view in grafana. Not necessary but since I had it already why not grab it. Data hoarder...

 

[mtraylor]

Are you spining up a vm in openbox on your local pc and running grafana on top of promethius to manipulate the data? This may not be a bad idea. Looks like I may have a weekend project

 

[gbru316]

Are you spining up a vm in openbox on your local pc and running grafana on top of promethius to manipulate the data? This may not be a bad idea. Looks like I may have a weekend project

Admittedly, I'm new to TIG stacks. And my background is hardware, not software. With sufficient fumbling, I can usually get software to do what I want but I'm far from fluent when it comes to developing software, in any language. Being allowed to run amok with software, I'm equally as likely to fix something as I am to burn it all down .

I'm not doing any real manipulation of data, just pulling it in with Telegraf, storing it with InfluxDB, and plotting it with Grafana.

I've got a windows PC as my daily driver at home and an old refurbished Dell (one of those ex-corporate desktops that gets refurbed and sold for like $125) running Ubuntu (plus my work laptop on my desk -- logitech's unifying receivers and switchable keyboards/mice are such great things to have -- 1 keyboard/mouse, 3 pc's).

I followed this guide on the Neptune forums to get the stack running. The biggest shortcoming I need to figure out how to handle is stuff that's not on the status.xml log. Things like manual tests (nitrate, phosphate), dosing (via 2x DOS), etc. Dosing would require manipulation because it only logs amount and time dosed. I'd really like to be able to see a day-by-day breakdown over time so I can track usage. Fusion handles this natively, but it's limited in it's data retention policy.

Currently trying to decide if I want to continue with the TIG stack (which would require effort to learn it) or if I just want to implement something in MATLAB.

 

[HBtank]

The technology doesn’t have that much room to grow IMO, and with so much individual equipment becoming smart, it just makes it trickier. My 15 year old Aqua-controller jr. does almost everything I need. Yeah, it would be neat to control some DC pumps and have ORP and salinity monitoring, and remote access, but honestly those are small upgrades (or centralization into the Apex) that is already done by the equipment itself. I have no need to change that system out, and for a new tank while I’m planning to get the new version, IMO it’s mostly nonessential upgrades.

 

[areefer01]

Are you spining up a vm in openbox on your local pc and running grafana on top of promethius to manipulate the data? This may not be a bad idea. Looks like I may have a weekend project

I do not believe this is directed at me but I do not. I have a dedicated Linux server that hosts our media and Plex server so threw telegraph there to pull the data from my Apex for later display. There is a thread over on the Neptune forums that may help. I don't have it handy but searching on telegraph and/or grafana should bring it up. Few examples if I remember correctly.

edit: @gbru316 linked it

 

[gbru316]

The technology doesn’t have that much room to grow IMO, and with so much individual equipment becoming smart, it just makes it trickier. My 15 year old Aqua-controller jr. does almost everything I need. Yeah, it would be neat to control some DC pumps and have ORP and salinity monitoring, and remote access, but honestly those are small upgrades (or centralization into the Apex) that is already done by the equipment itself. I have no need to change that system out, and for a new tank while I’m planning to get the new version, IMO it’s mostly nonessential upgrades.

I'm having a hard time thinking of additional capability, too. Expanded automated testing would be nice -- ie nitrate/phosphate. That could be used along with DOS to dose nitrate/phosphate. Or used to turn on/off skimmers or flow to reactors or whatever. And I think that's only a matter of time, with automated testing of those parameters already on the market. But I'm not sure that'd require a new Apex controller. A firmware update and another module could probably get the job done. Though, implementing this on an updated controller with no legacy support would make sense from a business/marketing standpoint. Force people to upgrade to get the feature.

Aside from that (from a hardware perspective), it's basically just updating communication interfaces to accommodate new products. And with the (unfortunate) march towards IoT for new devices, that might not even be necessary.

Maybe smaller form factor? Proprietary wireless protocol for modules/sensors to reduce cabling? Expanded data storage?

 

[areefer01]

I'm having a hard time thinking of additional capability, too. Expanded automated testing would be nice -- ie nitrate/phosphate. That could be used along with DOS to dose nitrate/phosphate. Or used to turn on/off skimmers or flow to reactors or whatever. And I think that's only a matter of time, with automated testing of those parameters already on the market. But I'm not sure that'd require a new Apex controller. A firmware update and another module could probably get the job done. Though, implementing this on an updated controller with no legacy support would make sense from a business/marketing standpoint. Force people to upgrade to get the feature.

Aside from that (from a hardware perspective), it's basically just updating communication interfaces to accommodate new products. And with the (unfortunate) march towards IoT for new devices, that might not even be necessary.

Maybe smaller form factor? Proprietary wireless protocol for modules/sensors to reduce cabling? Expanded data storage?

Nitrate or phosphate may never happen thanks to the ABC reagent. Why innovate when someone will just clone it and undercut the price?

With regards to proprietary wireless let us not do that. Look at Mobius. They do have a API stack that a couple other vendors use that works well. Kessil and Sicce both use it and it is a nice quality of life improvement. Just goes to show that people who both make pumps and lights can work together and not worry about sales.

Data storage is interesting and should be somewhat easy to solve since Fusion is cloud based. I'm guessing it isn't done due to cost. Disk storage is expensive in the cloud. Using faster IO increases it so I'm guessing they found a balance without pushing more down to the hobbyist.

 

[gbru316]

Nitrate or phosphate may never happen thanks to the ABC reagent. Why innovate when someone will just clone it and undercut the price?

With regards to proprietary wireless let us not do that. Look at Mobius. They do have a API stack that a couple other vendors use that works well. Kessil and Sicce both use it and it is a nice quality of life improvement. Just goes to show that people who both make pumps and lights can work together and not worry about sales.

Data storage is interesting and should be somewhat easy to solve since Fusion is cloud based. I'm guessing it isn't done due to cost. Disk storage is expensive in the cloud. Using faster IO increases it so I'm guessing they found a balance without pushing more down to the hobbyist.

Agree on all counts. Was just trying to brainstorm things that Neptune could add to a next gen controller.

 

[areefer01]

Agree on all counts. Was just trying to brainstorm things that Neptune could add to a next gen controller.

Yeah - I think we are on the same page. Not sure what they have coming out and maybe things will be for the better hobbyist now that a couple products are under the same roof. Hard to say really with the mergers and what not.

I do wish companies would look out for the hobbyist more than what is currently in play similar to what we saw finally transpire in the PC and Mac markets. The peripheral war and lack of standards hurt PC buyers but it is a lot better. Hoping we follow suit.

Hope your day is going well.

 

[Chrisv.]

Agree on all counts. Was just trying to brainstorm things that Neptune could add to a next gen controller.

I don't think that the development of aftermarket reagents would stall the development of additional testing features. In fact, it seems reasonable that the development of off brand reagents would further motivate the release of new hardware. If the competitors had a viable and competitively priced hardware solution for testing and controlling no3 and po4 but Neptune did not, it would be a more difficult choice to go with Neptune. Just brainstorming.

 

[HBtank]

I don't think that the development of aftermarket reagents would stall the development of additional testing features. In fact, it seems reasonable that the development of off brand reagents would further motivate the release of new hardware. If the competitors had a viable and competitively priced hardware solution for testing and controlling no3 and po4 but Neptune did not, it would be a more difficult choice to go with Neptune. Just brainstorming.

I would also think something like Mastertronic shows that proprietary reagent sales aren't required to make hardware development worthwhile.

 

[ScubaFish802]

Just saw this -


Made me think of this thread - sounds like a new basic version, and the current version being replaced with version '3A'