Is this actually about choosing GHA or DINOs?

[KonradTO]

Hi all,
I am a bit "suffering" the hit after I have dinoflagellates (again) colonising my sandbed.
I isolated some strands from the sand and it appear to be Amphidinium. This is a d***n neverending story. I increased nutrients input adding more fish the first time I got dino (was ostreopsis last time). This resulted in massive GHA growth for the lack of adequate CUC. I added a sump, a fuge, more CUC and reduced nutrients result? Zero NO3 and PO4, but I got told that the low nutrient readings were an artifact due to GHA sucking up nutrients faster than the test could detect. After some time at 2ppm nitrates and 0.03 ppm phos I got dinoflagellates again.
How do I find the balance? Or it is about choosing one of the two?

 

[Lavey29]

When my tank starting showing GHA I also had coraline starting. I thought the coraline would out compete the GHA but I was wrong and ended up with a huge jungle. I just stayed the course for multiple months keeping stabil parameters thinking this phase would pass as the tank matures but it stayed with me. After about 4 months I added urchins and turbos. Raised magnesium to 1500. 3 weeks later the tank was completely clean and nothing now for multiple months.

The main thing I would suggest is get your parameters all in the good zones and keep them there then other tools like cleaners. Reduced light, UV, PNS probio bacteria, etc... can do their job and your problem will go away. If your parameters are off though then nothing will work effectively to fix your problem.

 

[KonradTO]

When my tank starting showing GHA I also had coraline starting. I thought the coraline would out compete the GHA but I was wrong and ended up with a huge jungle. I just stayed the course for multiple months keeping stabil parameters thinking this phase would pass as the tank matures but it stayed with me. After about 4 months I added urchins and turbos. Raised magnesium to 1500. 3 weeks later the tank was completely clean and nothing now for multiple months.

The main thing I would suggest is get your parameters all in the good zones and keep them there then other tools like cleaners. Reduced light, UV, PNS probio bacteria, etc... can do their job and your problem will go away. If your parameters are off though then nothing will work effectively to fix your problem.

Did you have a lot of corals in your tank? Also did you clean your sandbed? Water changes? Were your nutrients stable without dosing/water changes? What was your ph?
Sorry for the tons of Q but I think I am doing something wrong and I can't tell what it is.
I think the reason for this dino bloom was the ato failing and driving salinity down for some time. This probably changed some balaces in the tank and started the dino.
Also from now on I think I will keep nutrients slightly higher and give up on the sps for some time

 

[Lavey29]

Did you have a lot of corals in your tank? Also did you clean your sandbed? Water changes? Were your nutrients stable without dosing/water changes? What was your ph?
Sorry for the tons of Q but I think I am doing something wrong and I can't tell what it is.
I think the reason for this dino bloom was the ato failing and driving salinity down for some time. This probably changed some balaces in the tank and started the dino.
Also from now on I think I will keep nutrients slightly higher and give up on the sps for some time

This started about 6 month mark and I had medium amount of LPS corals that were doing ok but not great. I was doing weekly 15% water changes and would vacuum small areas of the sand I could reach. I run a fuge that was growing chaeto well. I only check PH with straps so I can't give exact numbers but I really focused on nitrates, phosphate alk and cal with weekly checks. I run chemipure blue and carbon. I run phosguard if needed. During my heavy GHA period I focused on maintaining 10 nitrates and .07 phosphate. I don't buy into the concept that I'm just feeding algae. Corals and microfauna need food to. I raised my magnesium to 1500 because this weakens GHA but did hurt my chaeto a little also. I dosed chaeto gro to help it along. I started dosing PNS probio which I feel significantly helps clean up my tank with beneficial bacteria. I added urchins and turbos which wiped out my GHA along with manual removal. Really around the 10 month mark the tank seemed to stabilize and mature. I added more corals and use a doser for alk and cal now.

My best advice is to continue weekly water changes, diverse cleaner crew, manual removal and focus on good parameters with PNS probio weekly.

 

[KonradTO]

This started about 6 month mark and I had medium amount of LPS corals that were doing ok but not great. I was doing weekly 15% water changes and would vacuum small areas of the sand I could reach. I run a fuge that was growing chaeto well. I only check PH with straps so I can't give exact numbers but I really focused on nitrates, phosphate alk and cal with weekly checks. I run chemipure blue and carbon. I run phosguard if needed. During my heavy GHA period I focused on maintaining 10 nitrates and .07 phosphate. I don't buy into the concept that I'm just feeding algae. Corals and microfauna need food to. I raised my magnesium to 1500 because this weakens GHA but did hurt my chaeto a little also. I dosed chaeto gro to help it along. I started dosing PNS probio which I feel significantly helps clean up my tank with beneficial bacteria. I added urchins and turbos which wiped out my GHA along with manual removal. Really around the 10 month mark the tank seemed to stabilize and mature. I added more corals and use a doser for alk and cal now.

My best advice is to continue weekly water changes, diverse cleaner crew, manual removal and focus on good parameters with PNS probio weekly.

aren't water changes better to avoid until there are dinos around?
I don't mind doing WCs to be honest but many people suggest to avoid them until dino disappear so I have been skipping for a while. I run carbon and change it weekly but I never tried chemipure, I read a lot about that but if I understand it would lower my nitrates so I can avoid it for now.
Regarding pH i tested in winter and was quite low (7.6) but other than running 24/7 an airstone and dosing sodium carbonate I decided to ignore it.
I think I will also start dosing some bacteria for increasing diversity, I just need to find what the alternative brand here in EU.
My tank is now 10 months old so I really hope to see some change toward maturity and coral growth because it is quite frustrating that nothing seems working after so long

 

[KonradTO]

Also another intersting question is why my fuge looks healthier than my DT

 

[Lavey29]

aren't water changes better to avoid until there are dinos around?
I don't mind doing WCs to be honest but many people suggest to avoid them until dino disappear so I have been skipping for a while. I run carbon and change it weekly but I never tried chemipure, I read a lot about that but if I understand it would lower my nitrates so I can avoid it for now.
Regarding pH i tested in winter and was quite low (7.6) but other than running 24/7 an airstone and dosing sodium carbonate I decided to ignore it.
I think I will also start dosing some bacteria for increasing diversity, I just need to find what the alternative brand here in EU.
My tank is now 10 months old so I really hope to see some change toward maturity and coral growth because it is quite frustrating that nothing seems working after so long

It depends, LPS like slightly dirty water so water changes every other week is ok SPS like clean stabil water so perhaps that means weekly in order to keep everything stable. Each tank is different. Nothing you modify will change anything overnight. It may take months to balance out but you have to focus on the main things and keep them in the good ranges to allow your good bacteria and biodiversity to out compete the bad. Your dinos were caused by your lapse in maintaining proper parameters. Now you are trying to go from one extreme to the other to quickly and expect over night results. I never dosed any chemicals to eliminate my algae. I dosed chemiclean one time during a BJD breakout in the tank and it helped stop my problem but I learned what caused my BJD was bad parameters and coral stress which weakened their immune system. You should be siphoning up as much dinos as you can during water changes, reduce lights to 6 hours with blue and uv only no whites. Change filter socks daily. Get parameters in good ranges and dose PNS probio.

 

[KonradTO]

It depends, LPS like slightly dirty water so water changes every other week is ok SPS like clean stabil water so perhaps that means weekly in order to keep everything stable. Each tank is different. Nothing you modify will change anything overnight. It may take months to balance out but you have to focus on the main things and keep them in the good ranges to allow your good bacteria and biodiversity to out compete the bad. Your dinos were caused by your lapse in maintaining proper parameters. Now you are trying to go from one extreme to the other to quickly and expect over night results. I never dosed any chemicals to eliminate my algae. I dosed chemiclean one time during a BJD breakout in the tank and it helped stop my problem but I learned what caused my BJD was bad parameters and coral stress which weakened their immune system. You should be siphoning up as much dinos as you can during water changes, reduce lights to 6 hours with blue and uv only no whites. Change filter socks daily. Get parameters in good ranges and dose PNS probio.

My understanding was that there is some nutrient, probably some minor element that when gets depleted it slows down dinos growth. And when you do WC you basically replace that element and boost dino as a result. This is not my theory, I just recently went through the huge thread about amphidinium, and this theory seem shared by multiple users.
Also I don't have any sps (the last frag died recently), so that's why I would like to see the nutrients increase slightly before doing a wc. I am definitely not in a hurry, as I said unless the dinos start to release toxins in the water and kill pods I actually prefer those to GHA so no rush.. hopefully the cuc will become more active despite the dino. Now my trochus snails and the urchin seems to have "slown down", they are most of the time in the same spot.
Ok for the siphoning, I also do not have filter sock, so nothing to change.
I have a question regarding the lights:
I recently started to dial them up because my zoas looked like stretching toward the light. If I reduce light or cut the white par I think they will stretch even more. What is the reason behind cutting the white light? Maybe I could try to compensate with higher blue intensity but it is hard to tell which intensity I do need to maintain the same PAR..

 

[Lavey29]

My understanding was that there is some nutrient, probably some minor element that when gets depleted it slows down dinos growth. And when you do WC you basically replace that element and boost dino as a result. This is not my theory, I just recently went through the huge thread about amphidinium, and this theory seem shared by multiple users.
Also I don't have any sps (the last frag died recently), so that's why I would like to see the nutrients increase slightly before doing a wc. I am definitely not in a hurry, as I said unless the dinos start to release toxins in the water and kill pods I actually prefer those to GHA so no rush.. hopefully the cuc will become more active despite the dino. Now my trochus snails and the urchin seems to have "slown down", they are most of the time in the same spot.
Ok for the siphoning, I also do not have filter sock, so nothing to change.
I have a question regarding the lights:
I recently started to dial them up because my zoas looked like stretching toward the light. If I reduce light or cut the white par I think they will stretch even more. What is the reason behind cutting the white light? Maybe I could try to compensate with higher blue intensity but it is hard to tell which intensity I do need to maintain the same PAR..

I just employ a different approach. If my tank is screwed up water changes are my first remedy. You can dose neophos and neonitro to get those parameters where they need to be. Hand place your big cleaners everyday into an area to be cleaned. Make them eat their way out of the jungle. Light fuels the dinos and GHA. Cutting back for several weeks will not hurt corals. Zoas are almost indestructible. I run the AB plus program so my blues and uv are always 100%. White is 24 and red and green 6. If you take away the light your algae will weaken giving your good bacteria and cleaners a chance to get ahead. You still want to siphon dinos out weekly.

 

[Miami Reef]

Choose GHA or Dinos. Phosphate levels needed in order to limit algae will allow other organisms that can compete in those levels take over (I.e Dinos)

The saying “acropora need pristine waters” is a myth. Basically all of the acropora farms are keeping their phosphates from 0.08ppm to 0.15ppm. The people with low nutrients are usually the ones complaining about bleaching/STN etc.

The best way to control algae is by using herbivores IMO.