Is this Ich on my clown?

Weeb

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don’t want the possibility to reinfect the fish in QT
Now you're thinking!

Do not bring a sponge to the QT from the DT (or any other source where there may be disease/parasites).

When you set up the new, clean QT I would use a new sponge filter (or some other filter with media to house the nitrifying bacteria) and seed the clean QT with store bought bottled nitrifying bacteria. Until they grow and take effect, you may still need to control ammonia by other means.
 

Lavey29

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Is there anyway I can diagnose for sure what they have? I’m afraid to treat them for ich, but ends up being brook, or vice versa
It's just my opinion having had clowns with it. I still defer to Jay and vetteguy as the disease experts here but if their top dorsal are gets very cloudy with spots that's brook commonly referred to as clownfish disease
 
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liamelias

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Hey guys. I’m 99% positive my clowns have ich but asking for advice. I’ve had my clowns for a month and a half. They are the only fish in the tank. About almost 2 weeks ago I started noticing the dreading tiny white spots which now have started covering the fish. Im not sure what to do. They’re still feeding great, very active and hungry. No weird behavior. I wonder if they are hardy enough to ride it through or should I setup a QT for them? Just afraid the QT will actually stress them out to the point they succumb to the disease. Any thoughts?
Here is a video and images that clearly show their white spots as they’re swimming IMG_0470.jpeg IMG_0469.jpeg
Just posting progress to document the experience. Setup a 10G QT with freshly mixed water at the same temp, PH and salinity as DT. This allowed me to skip acclimation and lessen stress on the fish.
Added a sponge from my DT with some bacteria. Will still monitor ammonia and do frequent water changes. Started dosing cupramine, however im spreading the doses the first 4 days so it’s less hard on the fish. They’re feeding well and seem very active.

Here is a video
 

Jay Hemdal

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Just posting progress to document the experience. Setup a 10G QT with freshly mixed water at the same temp, PH and salinity as DT. This allowed me to skip acclimation and lessen stress on the fish.
Added a sponge from my DT with some bacteria. Will still monitor ammonia and do frequent water changes. Started dosing cupramine, however im spreading the doses the first 4 days so it’s less hard on the fish. They’re feeding well and seem very active.

Here is a video

Ah! Cupramine is not your best choice here. You should not use ammonia removers with Cupramine, it can release unbound ionic copper that can poison the fish. We know that Prime does this, and other reducing agents are also suspect. Also, the high range Hanna checker doesn’t work well to test for the 0.50
ppm level that Cupramine is dosed at.
At the very least, get to a full Cupramine dose within 24 hours, you do not want to let the ich have time to get much more developed than it is already.
Jay
 
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liamelias

liamelias

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Ah! Cupramine is not your best choice here. You should not use ammonia removers with Cupramine, it can release unbound ionic copper that can poison the fish. We know that Prime does this, and other reducing agents are also suspect. Also, the high range Hanna checker doesn’t work well to test for the 0.50
ppm level that Cupramine is dosed at.
At the very least, get to a full Cupramine dose within 24 hours, you do not want to let the ich have time to get much more developed than it is already.
Jay
Oh, I don’t think I mentioned Im using any Ammonia removers. Only way I’m controlling ammonia is through water changes and existing cycled sponge from DT sump.
But good suggestion on reaching a full cupramine dose within 24 hours. I definitely won’t wait the four days

This is the copper test kit I have that I was recommended. Is it not good? https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/copp...er-hi702-hanna-checker-hanna-instruments.html
 

n00bReefer

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What do you suggest I do? Im not sure what formulin treatment is. What steps can I take?
Lavey meant to say Formalin. There are other options people have tried but, I don't know what they were atm; I'm sure someone will give you an idea.



I concur that these fish look to have Brook which if not acted on quickly it'll be game over shortly. :(

Yes, move them to a QT asap.
 

n00bReefer

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I don’t think this is Brooklynella, the fish have been infected too long and are still swimming well, not “mopey” like Brook makes them look. I think this is late stage ich, when the mucus development tends to hide the individual trophonts.

Jay
Ahh, yeah.. that's true about the swimming. However, if they can do a Formalin dip that should handle everything.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Oh, I don’t think I mentioned Im using any Ammonia removers. Only way I’m controlling ammonia is through water changes and existing cycled sponge from DT sump.
But good suggestion on reaching a full cupramine dose within 24 hours. I definitely won’t wait the four days

This is the copper test kit I have that I was recommended. Is it not good? https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/copp...er-hi702-hanna-checker-hanna-instruments.html
I’ve just heard reports that the Hanna high range is difficult to use with Cupramine because it is dosed at a lower rate, near the low limit of that device.
Jay
 

Weeb

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I’ve just heard reports that the Hanna high range is difficult to use with Cupramine because it is dosed at a lower rate, near the low limit of that device.
Jay
For the copper checker, the accuracy range is +/- 0.05ppm & +/-5% of the reading. You are correct about the reliability of the Hanna checker at 0.5ppm Cu.

When using Cupramine, the best test kit is Salifert or Seachem.
 
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liamelias

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For the copper checker, the accuracy range is +/- 0.05ppm & +/-5% of the reading. You are correct about the reliability of the Hanna checker at 0.5ppm Cu.

When using Cupramine, the best test kit is Salifert or Seachem.
Im not sure what to make of it :( im told Hanna Checker is the most reliable since color tests are more difficult and bound to user errors. Wouldn’t the user error on color tests compensate for the +/- 0.05 accuracy. Cupramine has to be at 0.5 to be effective. A reading of 0.45 or 0.55 would still be within that range
 

Jay Hemdal

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For the copper checker, the accuracy range is +/- 0.05ppm & +/-5% of the reading. You are correct about the reliability of the Hanna checker at 0.5ppm Cu.

When using Cupramine, the best test kit is Salifert or Seachem.

Or just not use Cupramine at all (grin)

I know Coppersafe seems "old school", I used it back in the late 1970's when it was sold by Mardel, but it is pretty easy to use and relatively free from toxicity issues. It is tough to test for without the Hanna HR though. I use the API kit with it, but the color change is so subtle, I have to read it on a spectrophotometer.

Jay
 
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liamelias

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Or just not use Cupramine at all (grin)

I know Coppersafe seems "old school", I used it back in the late 1970's when it was sold by Mardel, but it is pretty easy to use and relatively free from toxicity issues. It is tough to test for without the Hanna HR though. I use the API kit with it, but the color change is so subtle, I have to read it on a spectrophotometer.

Jay
Im already at the 0.5 of cupramine, feel like changing treatments at this point would cause more harm than good? But agreed, would’ve definitely used coppersafe instead If i knew from the beginning. This was such an emergency scenario
 

Jay Hemdal

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Im already at the 0.5 of cupramine, feel like changing treatments at this point would cause more harm than good? But agreed, would’ve definitely used coppersafe instead If i knew from the beginning. This was such an emergency scenario

Oh no, don't change mid-course, we were just having a sidebar. What happens with these disease threads is that people will read them months/years from now (most people here don't post themselves, they just read). If we don't discuss things like that, it won't help the next person.

Cupramine isn't a BAD choice, just not the best one. There are tons of much worse, even "fake" ich medications out there....

Thanks,

Jay
 
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liamelias

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Just posting progress to document the experience. Setup a 10G QT with freshly mixed water at the same temp, PH and salinity as DT. This allowed me to skip acclimation and lessen stress on the fish.
Added a sponge from my DT with some bacteria. Will still monitor ammonia and do frequent water changes. Started dosing cupramine, however im spreading the doses the first 4 days so it’s less hard on the fish. They’re feeding well and seem very active.

Here is a video
Another progress update on the treatment. Almost 7 days into QT. I’m not seeing any white specs on the fish so guessing the Cupramine treatment is working. Surprised the adult tomots fell off this quickly? I know ich has a cycle and that’s why Im doing a 30 day treatment. Fish are swimming very well and are pretty hungry, always biting my fingertips. I chose to keep copper at 0.55 for any margin of error.
Here is a video below
 

Weeb

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Fish are looking good. :)
Surprised the adult tomots fell off this quickly?
Yes. They are just going through their cycle. The copper kills the free swimming stage of Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) so the fish won't get re-infected. Copper doesn't affect the Trophonts (parasitic stage).

Remember that the 'white specs' are actually mucous extrusions at the parasite location.

When you can, read through the Fish Health Rough Proper Nutrition post.
 

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