Is this necrosis?

[RockBox13]

LOL… I don’t take anything anyone says negatively. I am here to learn. I find that most people who make blanket comments make them because they know what they’re talking about but they also know what they’re talking about because they’ve been doing this for x number of years. I mentor a lot of early stage scientists who are incredibly bright but make mistake after mistake after mistake not because they don’t understand the science but because they don’t have the experience to correct minor mistakes as they make them. We are all at different stages of this journey. And we all want beautiful reef tanks. I 100% believe yours should be the target range. Some day, when I’ve made more mistakes than the ones I’ve already made I will be able to self correct without nuking my tank. Till then, I’ll continue on this journey. Asking what appear to be silly questions. And learning a little along the way. I appreciate any wisdom I can get. One of mentors once told me that there is nothing like a naive question to make you realize that you need to slow down and break it all into tiny pieces. I do that constantly with everything. Including as I teach myself a little about how to run a tank!

Many times the phrase, “Don’t tell me what to think, teach me how to think.” repeats itself in my mind and I don’t know where it came from.

 

[RockBox13]

Did you know that Vietnamese zoanthid rocks pulled right from the ocean and shipped to you on a boat slow enough to hold up traffic in the ocean and get passed by sea turtles flipping them the bird, with those rocks wrapped in nothing but garbage bags and damp newspaper smell delicious? Because they don’t.

So being in charge of coral and invert QT and going through the process where I have entirely brand new systems I controlled with great equipment to dip, QT, frag and keep corals looking healthy and colorful for sale, there were results many people could see in contrast side by side. The systems controlled by someone else with a different philosophy who received the same exact corals after I finished holding them in QT looked horrible at first and how did they respond? Bio pellets. That’s when the Coralpocalypse happened. It became clear that what I was doing with the exact same resources and level of equipment 6ft away was working better. We were the first store in the country where everything was lit by LED’s while many people on forums were saying LED’s would be a flop and metal halides would have to be pried from their cold dead hands. I was fragging corals from under MH and T5 that were put under LED and I learned to raise up that LED and interpret the PAR meter differently, but everything stayed colorful and healthy. So, they blamed the LED too. I say repeatedly that there’s an obvious difference in pH and KH in my systems. Crickets. In the In the other systems that customers are supposed to buy from, there’s LPS dying like Crips and Bloods from brown jelly, red band, red skeleton and Dinos everywhere. The 800g reef display looks pretty bad at that time too but it was mostly SPS and LPS is surviving at least.
Why high dKH to begin with? I had a 40g mixed reef at home that became SPS heavy over a couple years and eventually I noticed how coralline algae and a few Monti Caps would have a big growth spurt and then slow down and the Vivid Ultimate Purple Cap, X-Factor Cap and Vivid Valida in there were some money makers back then. Nothing died, there were things that closed up and looked terrible for days though. So, I start going higher with Alk and pH and I have to switch to dry Alk and just get all the Cap and Green Slimer out of there because they won’t slow down under T5’s. The mushrooms are multiplying and some are crowding my SPS, so they gotta go. The Mohawks, Armor of God, Cat Eyes and other Zoas and Palys are spreading a lot faster and look better than ever to me. I have the Acropoa growth to require a frag tank now and one store will buy with cash and finally not store credit all the SPS and Zoas I can grow. I start meeting, buying frags and learning things from some people I still consider the best SPS guys I’ve ever talked with like Eric Caamano, Hugo Zuniga aka snipersps right here on R2R and Steve Garrett. I was also very lucky to have met OMG Jesus Corals at Vivid Aquariums several times before seeing him at a wholesaler. He’s not a talkative person and is very soft spoken but he remembered me because I speak Spanish and we had short conversations at Vivid before. He took the time to tell me where to buy for quality and price, what to look for in a healthy group or shipment of wild or maricultured Acros and introduced me to a few of his reps.

 

[RockBox13]

If only there were some way to show that one time I had some of those Acropora frags and they started growing up and down at the same time! The foot part started covering the little plug things and the horns were getting longer too. That’s crazy!

 

[ScottB]

I vaguely recall that NSW has ALK around 7-8. My frag system requires 4 liters of Kalk and 120ml of ALK per day just to keep that range. Seems to work for my sticks. Fast growth isn't something I shoot for though so there is that. Already I have to rip my reef apart every 4 years which is a pain in the bum.

 

[SocalS14]

Acros are difficult, I've woken up on some mornings and found a completely bleached out stick instead of living coral. Have you checked for any potential pests?

Acros are difficult, I've woken up on some mornings and found a completely bleached out stick instead of living coral. Have you checked for any potential pests?

No - I haven't, but I started with all dead rock. So the only hitchhikers that could come in, would be through frags.

 

[SocalS14]

Mark another tissue necrosis or dead coral down for low alk and low pH. There’s no reason for Acropora or other corals to start disintegrating unless there’s a problem with the major elements or parameters Unless you suspect there was a major problem that happened quickly, it’s something that has been off for a while. Stress from a low pH or low alk accumulates and the coral weakens to the point it can’t resist anymore. Coral bleaching events in Nature due to heat stress are predictable with a formula that calculates how warm the water has been and for how many days. it’s the same with the other major parameters. Small temporary shifts out or range are tolerated for a period of time, but continued stress and multiple issues affecting the coral add up. That’s why you see individual corals at different levels of health in the same tank. Get your alkalinity and pH up first off. I didn’t see a number for pH but I would bet my house that it’s low.

“What are degree heating weeks?
NOAA Coral Reef Watch degree heating weeks (or DHW) is a widely used tool used to measure accumulated heat stress in an area and predict coral bleaching risk throughout tropical coral reef ecosystems.
It is calculated by combining the intensity of daily temperature extremes and the total time when daily temperatures exceed the bleaching threshold over the previous three months. Significant coral bleaching is predicted above 4 DHW and coral mortality is expected above 8 DHW.
Degree heating weeks are a NOAA heat stress product”.

My PH hovers in the 8.2 to 8.4 range. I recently began Randy's two part and so Alk and Ca are on the rise, albeit slowly.

 

[rennjidk]

My PH hovers in the 8.2 to 8.4 range. I recently began Randy's two part and so Alk and Ca are on the rise, albeit slowly.

Your parameters are fine, except for that low calcium. Could that be a contributing factor? Probably. It could also be an issue with par, disease, pests, flow, or 100 other things. What I know with 100% certainty is that you're frag didn't die because you chose to run your dKH at 8, or how much your pH fluctuates throughout the day. The people suggesting this are just feeding you nonsense.

Being that it's been there a month, I'd try to bring the Ca up (as you have been) and investigate lighting and flow if you're able to. It wouldn't hurt to bring that phosphate down a little too, but that didn't cause this either. It's just better for long term health and skeletal density if it's under 0.1ppm.

 

[SocalS14]

Your parameters are fine, except for that low calcium. Could that be a contributing factor? Probably. It could also be an issue with par, disease, pests, flow, or 100 other things. What I know with 100% certainty is that you're frag didn't die because you chose to run your dKH at 8, or how much your pH fluctuates throughout the day. The people suggesting this are just feeding you nonsense.

Being that it's been there a month, I'd try to bring the Ca up (as you have been) and investigate lighting and flow if you're able to. It wouldn't hurt to bring that phosphate down a little too, but that didn't cause this either. It's just better for long term health and skeletal density if it's under 0.1ppm.

Just swapped out my GFO yesterday, so Phos is going to come down.

 

[Pod_01]

Just swapped out my GFO yesterday, so Phos is going to come down.

I would go very slowly on reducing PO4. While your number is elevated there is no reason to bring it down and value between 0.1-0.2 are not going to kill any coral unless you have some super sensitive and $$$$$ acro. I killed quite few corals by driving PO4 down too quickly.
Here is great advice from Hans-Werner Balling (person responsible for Balling method)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wanting-to-start-my-sps-journey.1032835/post-12167963


Also once your corals start to take off PO4 value will come down.
The idea is for the corals to act as a main filter. Skimmer just supplements the corals.
Better way to reduce PO4 and help the tank is to use carbon dosing like Tropic Marine NP Bacto Ballance. The carbon source will feed the bacteria (bacteria will consumes PO4) and in turn the bacteria gets consumed by corals. I use it and I dose 0.4ml per 60 gal.

 

[SocalS14]

I run my GFO reactor for only a short period every night. From what I have seen, that keeps it in the 0.1 zone. PO4 had been drifting up, and it was time to replace.

 

[Pod_01]

I’d take his over yours just cause of the way you talk to people man… why are you trying to belittle somebody? Let’s see your tank thread…………

Just an observation, @RockBox13 has definitely different way with words.

Looking at his other comments he does appear to have experience and is passionate about the well being of the critters we keep.

I might not be on the same page about Alk 10-12 dKh but if there is reason behind the madness I am all ears.

I like to see pictures of the critters people keep to decide if the approach/method /suggestion is working:

Preferably people’s own tank not the neighbour, uncle , buddy etc…

 

[Troylee]

Just an observation, @RockBox13 has definitely different way with words.

Looking at his other comments he does appear to have experience and is passionate about the well being of the critters we keep.

I might not be on the same page about Alk 10-12 dKh but if there is reason behind the madness I am all ears.

I like to see pictures of the critters people keep to decide if the approach/method /suggestion is working:

Preferably people’s own tank not the neighbour, uncle , buddy etc…

I try and keep mine 8-9 “some times it creeps near 10” just to have a buffer if something got of whack or my trident was way out of calibration etc.. my ph is 7.8-8.1 on a good day.

 

[Pod_01]

Who knows but it’s not out of the ordinary for a coral to let go for what ever reason.

That there drives me insane. Especially with Acros…. One day nice, next day white stick and acro next to it is just fine.
Sometimes I suspect coral warfare….
With my acros giving up after good growth I suspect incorrect flow/ dead spots…. The corals are just not getting enough of new building blocks and the waste is not removed…

 

[Troylee]

That there drives me insane. Especially with Acros…. One day nice, next day white stick and acro next to it is just fine.
Sometimes I suspect coral warfare….
With my acros giving up after good growth I suspect incorrect flow/ dead spots…. The corals are just not getting enough of new building blocks and the waste is not removed…

Yeah idk.. but what I do know is if everything in my tank is doing amazing and one lets go DO NOT! change a thing and just keep on trucking! Making changes to please one coral will set off numerous other problems with other ones..

 

[revhtree]

Hello SPS fans,

I removed several posts from several members. Please agree to disagree at times but never belittle one another or post rude comments. Overly rude members will have their account restricted to moderated posts or worse. Hope you understand.

Thank you.

 

[RockBox13]

Hi...had this acro as an experiment. Wanted to see if I could manage keeping it. Had for about a month. Tank params:

Nitrate : 8.6
Phos : 0.18
Alk : 7.8
Calc : 375
Lighting : 2x Nicrew 150s + 1x Nicrew 100

I run mostly blues, with an hour of white everyday.

Ca is a little low...working on boosting that.

Here is the coral. Everything else in the tank looks good. Thoughts?

I apologize for having to get into it with people and turn things into a distraction, but I did not forget about your issue. It’s a repeated situation that I need to stand on and explain why water parameters have to be different for a cycling tank and what isn’t being tested for and overlooked that’s contributing to the tissue necrosis on your Acro. I need to know a couple more things about your system but it will make sense and it will help your corals. I will explain in a separate thread why you need to raise Alk and pH in order to reach that “mature” status when everything else is stable and the lower pH & Alk with the Nitrate and Phosphate 100 to 1 ratio and the right food and supplements could get you to near perfection. I have to put some things together but It will address bacteria, filtration, lighting, and why you want to have a high pH and low nutrients to keep Dinoflagellates from even starting up and having coralline growing well. I know what I’m talking about as you can see by the Acropora I have kept going back a long time. I’ve got some video links of some customer’s reef tanks and the 800.
I guarantee the Alk is at 10-12 pH is 8.3- 8.4 in my holding tanks. I call them flats, like the SPS flat or LPS flat. I will try to give names for the limited edition/exclusives in these pictures or note if these pieces were wild or maricultured and selected by myself. I love Acropora with texture

 

[Tonycass12]

I apologize for having to get into it with people and turn things into a distraction, but I did not forget about your issue. It’s a repeated situation that I need to stand on and explain why water parameters have to be different for a cycling tank and what isn’t being tested for and overlooked that’s contributing to the tissue necrosis on your Acro. I need to know a couple more things about your system but it will make sense and it will help your corals. I will explain in a separate thread why you need to raise Alk and pH in order to reach that “mature” status when everything else is stable and the lower pH & Alk with the Nitrate and Phosphate 100 to 1 ratio and the right food and supplements could get you to near perfection. I have to put some things together but It will address bacteria, filtration, lighting, and why you want to have a high pH and low nutrients to keep Dinoflagellates from even starting up and having coralline growing well. I know what I’m talking about as you can see by the Acropora I have kept going back a long time. I’ve got some video links of some customer’s reef tanks and the 800.
I guarantee the Alk is at 10-12 pH is 8.3- 8.4 in my holding tanks. I call them flats, like the SPS flat or LPS flat. I will try to give names for the limited edition/exclusives in these pictures or note if these pieces were wild or maricultured and selected by myself. I love Acropora with texture

What works for one will not always work for another. OP it's easy to get flooded with the vast amounts of info and opinions from other reefers, you are the one who ultimately decides what to follow. I don't put any stock in the nitrate phosphate ratio. My tank runs nitrates between 30-40 and my phosphates are usually around .7 but never below .5 way higher then most anyone would recommend for nutrients. I keep it here because my tank is stable and the corals don't mind it. Always listen to your corals. Make changes slowly and only do one thing at a time. Cheers!