Is too many sponges a bad thing?

[Andresnyc93]

Ever since I started dosing AB+ I’ve noticed my sponges on the rock work keep multiplying. Is this something I should be worried about? Also I have a flame angelfish in there but he doesn’t seem to keep up with eating them.
Any inverts or other fish that can help them get trimmed down every now and then? Thanks

 

[BostonReefer300]

You'll get all sorts of opinions on R2R about sponges. Some think they are killers of coral due to toxins. Others think they're great filter feeders. Personally, I've got bigger things to worry about in my tank than sponges. Maybe cut down your AB+?

 

[Andresnyc93]

You'll get all sorts of opinions on R2R about sponges. Some think they are killers of coral due to toxins. Others think they're great filter feeders. Personally, I've got bigger things to worry about in my tank than sponges. Maybe cut down your AB+?

I’m following recommended dosage but I’ll cut down to half the portion. I don’t mind them just don’t know if there’s a bigger issue I should worry with them long term

 

[vlangel]

I personally like sponges for their filtering ability. I typically always have some sponges and they go through cycles in the amount in the tank. Perhaps that is due to my livestock that has a taste for sponges. At any rate, I do not believe that I have ever noticed a detrimental effect from them, whether they are few or many.

 

[Andresnyc93]

I personally like sponges for their filtering ability. I typically always have some sponges and they go through cycles in the amount in the tank. Perhaps that is due to my livestock that has a taste for sponges. At any rate, I do not believe that I have ever noticed a detrimental effect from them, whether they are few or many.

If you don’t mind me asking what livestock and size tank do you have? I can probably add one more fish if it’ll help keeping the population of them in check

 

[GARRIGA]

No experience with sponges but am considering them as added filtration and some are really impressive lookers. Don't know about toxins. Technically speaking, corals put those out to combat neighbors therefore I don't see how that's going to be an issue.

Curious to see what is recommended as a natural predator that is otherwise reef safe. Only thing I can think of is larger angels which aren't reef safe. Fact is I've always wanted a large display with large angles and tangs. Placing sponges in iut ahead of time and letting it establish might be a good food source for the angels. Assuming they can replicate faster than eaten. Would be starting with smaller specimens and perhaps in a reef tank one could do the same then just trade it out when it gets too big.

 

[Andresnyc93]

No experience with sponges but am considering them as added filtration and some are really impressive lookers. Don't know about toxins. Technically speaking, corals put those out to combat neighbors therefore I don't see how that's going to be an issue.

Curious to see what is recommended as a natural predator that is otherwise reef safe. Only thing I can think of is larger angels which aren't reef safe. Fact is I've always wanted a large display with large angles and tangs. Placing sponges in iut ahead of time and letting it establish might be a good food source for the angels. Assuming they can replicate faster than eaten. Would be starting with smaller specimens and perhaps in a reef tank one could do the same then just trade it out when it gets too big.

My flame angel will nip at them through the day but I’ve also been using reef enhance by reef brite and I think that’s part of how they came to establish themselves so quickly in hand with AB+ I don’t mind them though. Free constant snacks for my angelfish but want to take them down a bit

 

[vlangel]

I have a 56 gallon column display. I have 2 pajama cardinalfish, 3 yellowtail damsels, a tomini tang, a coral beauty angelfish, a royal Gramma, a midas blenny, a barnacle blenny, a yellow watchman goby and an ocellaris clownfish. This tank has purple photosynthetic sponge, yellow ball sponge and naturally occurring white and yellow sponges on the live rock.

The sump also has a lot of naturally occurring white sponge with no predation at all but I am glad about the sponges growing there.

 

[Spare time]

I believe those sponges come from silicate in the water

 

[Andresnyc93]

I have a 56 gallon column display. I have 2 pajama cardinalfish, 3 yellowtail damsels, a tomini tang, a coral beauty angelfish, a royal Gramma, a midas blenny, a barnacle blenny, a yellow watchman goby and an ocellaris clownfish. This tank has purple photosynthetic sponge, yellow ball sponge and naturally occurring white and yellow sponges on the live rock.

The sump also has a lot of naturally occurring white sponge with no predation at all but I am glad about the sponges growing there.

Sounds like a beautiful set up! I have yet to see them in my sump but I do have multiple things going on down there that might be killing them

 

[vlangel]

By today's standards of reef tanks it's modest but I really like it.

 

[Andresnyc93]

I believe those sponges come from silicate in the water

My phosphates are pretty low .002 but I do run nitrates a little higher since I have some euphyllia and RBTA’s around 10-15

 

[Andresnyc93]

By today's standards of reef tanks it's modest but I really like it.

Very nice! Here’s mine 85 gallons of pure arches

 

[stumblinras]

Ime pineapple sponges break out right when I'm getting my parameters stable and dialed in a newer tank(silicates?). They seem to kind of go away once I have it stable for a few months. Never had a adverse effect on any of my tanks.

 

[Andresnyc93]

Ime pineapple sponges break out right when I'm getting my parameters stable and dialed in a newer tank(silicates?). They seem to kind of go away once I have it stable for a few months. Never had a adverse effect on any of my tanks.

I’ve had this tank running for a year and stable and corals have been thriving recently. I guess I should just cut back on the AB+ and just let them feed off the phyto and elements I dose daily

 

[stumblinras]

You can do that but either way I think you will be fine. They will eventually kind regulate themselves. My sump and overflow were covered in them for about 6 months and now I only see them here and there.

 

[Timfish]

WHat's too much? Looks like what you have is pineapple sponges which can be the dominate sponge initially when a system matures. As mentioned above they will regulate themselves over time and you should see other cryptic sponges grow.

Cryptic sponges are essential recyclers in marine systems processing labile DOC 1000X faster than bacterioplankton. This is good as too much labile DOC is not good for corals. Here's a databomb if you're interested in reading more. Here's some videos you may find informative also.


Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton
https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej2017142
Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)
https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4191
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4381
Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2435.12758
A Vicious Circle? Altered Carbon and Nutrient Cycling May Explain the Low Resilience of Caribbean Coral Reefs
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/6/470/2754308
Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279061640_2013_deGoeij_Science_Sponge_loop
Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934968/
The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.
https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9d1e5/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Andresnyc93]

WHat's too much? Looks like what you have is pineapple sponges which can be the dominate sponge initially when a system matures. As mentioned above they will regulate themselves over time and you should see other cryptic sponges grow.

Cryptic sponges are essential recyclers in marine systems processing labile DOC 1000X faster than bacterioplankton. This is good as too much labile DOC is not good for corals. Here's a databomb if you're interested in reading more. Here's some videos you may find informative also.


Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton
https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej2017142
Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)
https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4191
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/14/4381
Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2435.12758
A Vicious Circle? Altered Carbon and Nutrient Cycling May Explain the Low Resilience of Caribbean Coral Reefs
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/66/6/470/2754308
Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279061640_2013_deGoeij_Science_Sponge_loop
Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3934968/
The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.
https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9d1e5/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

Lots of great information! Really appreciate it. I wonder if using the reef enhance by reef brite has gotten them to establish themselves more but nonetheless really glad to know they’re fine growing all over the rock work. Also I’ve been using benepets every here and there and my corals seem to be really happy

 

[Paul B]

Yes to many sponges is bad. All the available real estate in my tank is covered in encrusting sponge and they slowly cover my corals so it is an ongoing job to trim it.

If I cut to much of it, it exudes a toxin that killed most of my SPS. I like sponges but if they get to crazy, you can't get rid of them.

I have this blue stuff on everything. It looks like a light blue montipora so it is nice looking, but encrusting.

 

[Andresnyc93]

Yes to many sponges is bad. All the available real estate in my tank is covered in encrusting sponge and they slowly cover my corals so it is an ongoing job to trim it.

If I cut to much of it, it exudes a toxin that killed most of my SPS. I like sponges but if they get to crazy, you can't get rid of them.

I have this blue stuff on everything. It looks like a light blue montipora so it is nice looking, but encrusting.

Those look like really soft blue Monty’s but noted. Luckily I don’t have any sps in this system at the moment so I’ll try to remove as much as possible. Only have nems and euphyllia in there