Issues keeping corals

[Justin A.]

For around a year now I have had issues keeping any LPS/SPS. This is a new tank but I had a successful full SPS 29g system around 10ish years ago that I had to shut down. I never had these issues with my old 29G and I'm close to throwing in the towel which would be heart breaking for me. I've gone down all of the rabbit holes while trying to maintain calm and not chase numbers or anecdotal comments from similar threads.

I feel this is a chemistry problem, as I cant find any other reason for my issues - if this isn't the right thread for this type of post please feel free to move it. Sorry for the long post, I just feel there's some context/history needed before I get to my questions

This is a bad picture of my old 29g in its prime. I'm not a complete stranger to SPS but it has been some time.

All corals start great and look healthy for 1-2 weeks then they basically bailout stn/rtn between 2-3 weeks of adding them to the system. Its always consistent for each frag dying around the 2-3 week mark that I can almost time it. I mostly test with common SPS frags as they are cheaper nowadays then some LPS and ultimately I want this to be a full sps system like my old tank. The frags start tip down and stop for a brief period leaving a white skeleton tip - then all of a sudden it melts to the point i can blow all of the polyps/skin off the skeleton with a baster.

I have not seen any AEFW, MEN, red bugs etc. but with that said I do have little tan keyhole limpets - most of what I read online says they may be predatory but I have never observed any bite marks on corals; they don't survive long enough to get eaten. Also in the last month it looks like I got Acoel flatworms despite dipping new frags. Those are brand new so I ruled them out due to the history of this issue.

I had gotten 3-4 ORA frags in March of 22' just to test the waters and they did great for 3-4 months, decent color and had some good growth, then this stn/rtn issue started up.

I have had nutrient issues with lulls of zero and then spikes due to dosing. I mixed up some potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate I got from a fresh water vendor. I have also fed heavier, tried aminos on a doser (acropower and Redsea AB), and reef roids to try to maintain a detectable level. Its been a battle to get to a balanced range of nutrients and I'm still working on it.

Also to note I have not had massive corraline growth, I do have a large frag disc covered in it that has continued to grow but its not spreading much across the whole tank. Just a few spots here and there on the seams/glass.

Startup January 2022

RSR 250
x2 AI Hydra - mounted 12" from surface, 4 hour ramp up, 4 hour peak, 5 hour ramp down with the tail end on very low blues for late night viewing
x2 Nero 5s
Aquamax Cone SQ1
Chaeto fuge w/ home depot lamp
Dry rock *Rock has life on it, sponges, coralline, tons of pods etc. - Also seeded with Aquabiomics rubble around the 7 month mark of the tank
Barebottom
Brightwell Salt
4 stage RODI - 0 tds - on city water for 15 months recently moved and have well water
Other misc. equipment but not relevant

Fish
Clown - Almost 10 years old from original tank
Springer damsel
Royal gramma
Stripped blenny
Banggai Cardinal

Minimal nuisance algae - I scrub the rock and glass almost daily and run a line through a filter sock to siphon out

Parameters - weekly-ish testing and one ICP from November - I have a reef labs ICP test in route.
Salinity -1.025-1.026
Alk - 7.5 Consistently stable but i have been slowly raising it
Calc - 425
Mag - 1400
Nitrate - 5.8
Phosphate .08
pH - don't have a test, plan to buy a probe when I have funds

ICP from Nov '22 - these are just the red flags, everything else was in line. This test is old but I figured its still relevant for metals etc. confirmation
Tin - 11 µg/l
Lithium - 333 µg/l
Bromide - 41 mg/l
Potassium - 359 mg/l

Questions
1. Are any of the ICP results a concern? ill follow up with the new ICP results when I get them
2. I understand my nutrients not being stable are an issue - but would it result in the reaction I'm seeing with the frags. STN tips into a quick Bailout/RTN?
3. Could my source of Potassium nitrate & monopotassium phosphate be an issue? I found these on a thread I believe on R2R - its from greenleafaquariums
4. Why after this whole time are my nutrients so unstable? Even removing my Chaeto and cleaning my rock of nuisance algae I keep bottoming out or having spikes. Biological/chemical imbalance?
5. Other contaminants I can test for?
6. Aside from "new tank syndrome" is there anything else?

Frags in the fts are from RAP NY and all on their way out in line with the 2 week timeline

 

[Pod_01]

Just an idea but you could try some of those easy to keep corals to build up some coral mass and to make sure all water parameters are well. My suggestion would be Duncan coral and maybe Devil hand. When these are fully open you know the water chemistry is good, if not open well you need to fix something.

Also nice choices for coral mass are some of the short zoas like King Midas or Rasta zoa etc. Again good for indication of water quality and to build up coral mass so parameters become stable.

Another choice is GSP on its own rock or back glass.
Here is my GSP:

Or you could go for plate montipora but they are bit more work to manage. Again great at telling you if water parameters are good. Pale colour there is a problem etc…


Good luck,

 

[TopShelfAquatics]

Sorry to hear of your struggles, don't give up! It can definitely be frustrating when you are constantly loosing frags, but you will get there. From what you wrote my initial guess would be that it is definitely a nutrient issue. The most common things we see take out corals are salinity, alkalinity, temperature and nutrition swings. If you are constantly bottoming out after being at a good level that would definitely stress out your frags and it would cause them to die in a period of a couple weeks. One thing that stands out that may contribute to nutrient issues is your rock work is laid out to where it makes it very easy for food and detritus to get trapped and not easily blown out by your power heads. This could cause a build up of nutrients and if you are doing water changes and suddenly blowing it out the nutrients could be dropping quickly. Also it is a bit hard to tell, but it looks like there is only one power head in the tank. Flow is VERY important especially when it comes to the health of SPS. For your size tank we would recommend at least two power heads programmed in random flow patterns set as high as possible to provide the corals with strong random flow patterns. Another thing to look in to is have you PAR mapped your tank? You would be surprised how intense modern LEDs can be. It is very easy to burn your corals if your lights are set to high.

 

[Justin A.]

Just an idea but you could try some of those easy to keep corals to build up some coral mass and to make sure all water parameters are well. My suggestion would be Duncan coral and maybe Devil hand. When these are fully open you know the water chemistry is good, if not open well you need to fix something.

Also nice choices for coral mass are some of the short zoas like King Midas or Rasta zoa etc. Again good for indication of water quality and to build up coral mass so parameters become stable.

Another choice is GSP on its own rock or back glass.
Here is my GSP:

Or you could go for plate montipora but they are bit more work to manage. Again great at telling you if water parameters are good. Pale colour there is a problem etc…


Good luck,

Thanks. I was probably going to try a leather or softie next. I tried LPS and they also had polyp bailout.

Sorry to hear of your struggles, don't give up! It can definitely be frustrating when you are constantly loosing frags, but you will get there. From what you wrote my initial guess would be that it is definitely a nutrient issue. The most common things we see take out corals are salinity, alkalinity, temperature and nutrition swings. If you are constantly bottoming out after being at a good level that would definitely stress out your frags and it would cause them to die in a period of a couple weeks. One thing that stands out that may contribute to nutrient issues is your rock work is laid out to where it makes it very easy for food and detritus to get trapped and not easily blown out by your power heads. This could cause a build up of nutrients and if you are doing water changes and suddenly blowing it out the nutrients could be dropping quickly. Also it is a bit hard to tell, but it looks like there is only one power head in the tank. Flow is VERY important especially when it comes to the health of SPS. For your size tank we would recommend at least two power heads programmed in random flow patterns set as high as possible to provide the corals with strong random flow patterns. Another thing to look in to is have you PAR mapped your tank? You would be surprised how intense modern LEDs can be. It is very easy to burn your corals if your lights are set to high.

Im trying to hold on, its just painful. I do have two nero 5s on around 80-90% with 30s on 10s off alternating so theres some random flow. The rock is pretty dense with caves for my fish, which was intentional, but i blow out the rocks almost daily with a baster and built it in a way that i can lift the top rocks in one piece to make sure there isnt settling detritus in a crevice. I have not checked par, i am new to 100% LED but i have tried the acclimation mode on the hydras when introducing new frags. Ill get in line to rent a par meter from BRS just to check.

The one thing throwing me off is i never recall losing SPS so quickly due to low nutrients. The frags ive lost all had good color/PE until the tip STN then it RTNs quickly after. They dont pale out or fade, its just a rapid decline.

 

[vetteguy53081]

For around a year now I have had issues keeping any LPS/SPS. This is a new tank but I had a successful full SPS 29g system around 10ish years ago that I had to shut down. I never had these issues with my old 29G and I'm close to throwing in the towel which would be heart breaking for me. I've gone down all of the rabbit holes while trying to maintain calm and not chase numbers or anecdotal comments from similar threads.

I feel this is a chemistry problem, as I cant find any other reason for my issues - if this isn't the right thread for this type of post please feel free to move it. Sorry for the long post, I just feel there's some context/history needed before I get to my questions

This is a bad picture of my old 29g in its prime. I'm not a complete stranger to SPS but it has been some time.

All corals start great and look healthy for 1-2 weeks then they basically bailout stn/rtn between 2-3 weeks of adding them to the system. Its always consistent for each frag dying around the 2-3 week mark that I can almost time it. I mostly test with common SPS frags as they are cheaper nowadays then some LPS and ultimately I want this to be a full sps system like my old tank. The frags start tip down and stop for a brief period leaving a white skeleton tip - then all of a sudden it melts to the point i can blow all of the polyps/skin off the skeleton with a baster.

I have not seen any AEFW, MEN, red bugs etc. but with that said I do have little tan keyhole limpets - most of what I read online says they may be predatory but I have never observed any bite marks on corals; they don't survive long enough to get eaten. Also in the last month it looks like I got Acoel flatworms despite dipping new frags. Those are brand new so I ruled them out due to the history of this issue.

I had gotten 3-4 ORA frags in March of 22' just to test the waters and they did great for 3-4 months, decent color and had some good growth, then this stn/rtn issue started up.

I have had nutrient issues with lulls of zero and then spikes due to dosing. I mixed up some potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate I got from a fresh water vendor. I have also fed heavier, tried aminos on a doser (acropower and Redsea AB), and reef roids to try to maintain a detectable level. Its been a battle to get to a balanced range of nutrients and I'm still working on it.

Also to note I have not had massive corraline growth, I do have a large frag disc covered in it that has continued to grow but its not spreading much across the whole tank. Just a few spots here and there on the seams/glass.

Startup January 2022

RSR 250
x2 AI Hydra - mounted 12" from surface, 4 hour ramp up, 4 hour peak, 5 hour ramp down with the tail end on very low blues for late night viewing
x2 Nero 5s
Aquamax Cone SQ1
Chaeto fuge w/ home depot lamp
Dry rock *Rock has life on it, sponges, coralline, tons of pods etc. - Also seeded with Aquabiomics rubble around the 7 month mark of the tank
Barebottom
Brightwell Salt
4 stage RODI - 0 tds - on city water for 15 months recently moved and have well water
Other misc. equipment but not relevant

Fish
Clown - Almost 10 years old from original tank
Springer damsel
Royal gramma
Stripped blenny
Banggai Cardinal

Minimal nuisance algae - I scrub the rock and glass almost daily and run a line through a filter sock to siphon out

Parameters - weekly-ish testing and one ICP from November - I have a reef labs ICP test in route.
Salinity -1.025-1.026
Alk - 7.5 Consistently stable but i have been slowly raising it
Calc - 425
Mag - 1400
Nitrate - 5.8
Phosphate .08
pH - don't have a test, plan to buy a probe when I have funds

ICP from Nov '22 - these are just the red flags, everything else was in line. This test is old but I figured its still relevant for metals etc. confirmation
Tin - 11 µg/l
Lithium - 333 µg/l
Bromide - 41 mg/l
Potassium - 359 mg/l

Questions
1. Are any of the ICP results a concern? ill follow up with the new ICP results when I get them
2. I understand my nutrients not being stable are an issue - but would it result in the reaction I'm seeing with the frags. STN tips into a quick Bailout/RTN?
3. Could my source of Potassium nitrate & monopotassium phosphate be an issue? I found these on a thread I believe on R2R - its from greenleafaquariums
4. Why after this whole time are my nutrients so unstable? Even removing my Chaeto and cleaning my rock of nuisance algae I keep bottoming out or having spikes. Biological/chemical imbalance?
5. Other contaminants I can test for?
6. Aside from "new tank syndrome" is there anything else?

Frags in the fts are from RAP NY and all on their way out in line with the 2 week timeline

I was sort of in the same boat with SPS and was at a conclusion to have just LPS and attended a couple of seminars and tried the recommendation of changing water at 2 gals per day (8-10 mins) . I thought, its never going to work, but gave it a shot. Afterall, it keeps levels in check and replenishes traces used by corals.
I can raise any SPS now as shown in my build threads.
Im NOT going to claim this is your answer or the answer in whole, but worth a shot

 

[DaveWrasse]

From my experience when starting out with frags you don't need to dose anything. Just a simple 5% weekly or bi-weekly water change will be sufficient for the first year. Use a higher alk salt (9 - 11) instead of a lower one (7). Don't run a refugium, just your skimmer is sufficient. Feed fish two times a day a good type of pellet and maybe some frozen food once or twice a week. That should keep your nutrients up. If you want to add coral food, BRS Reef Chili or Reef Roids is good.

Frags to try out include bird nest type frags, stylophora and digi monitipora. Get these thriving then start with low cost acropora.

Start with the frags on the bottom of the tank, and raise them up over time (2 - 4 weeks). Keep an eye out for nuisance algae that can harm the frags. Don't do Potassium nitrate & monopotassium phosphate anymore, unless your an expert in this field. If your ICP test shows any heavy metals, use Pruit in a carbon reactor to remove. Your parameters are good, but you don't mention temperature. Should be 75 - 78 F. Check your light program, there are many options you can download and use, one example here is from WWC. https://worldwidecorals.com/pages/led-lighting-presets