I've killed a half dozen new fish in QT...is it my fault???

[Phyber]

Reefer history:
I have a two year old 65g SPS dominate reef tank. I only have two clownfish and a small yellow tang, which have been in there since the start.

I'm having issues with keeping new fish in my QT, and after this last experience I'm trying to see if the problem is me, or if I just have the world's worst luck. I really want to add banggais to my tank, and have purchased several from my LFS' and ultimately ended up with the same result. This past weekend, I decided to pick up a fat Coral Beauty, who didn't even last the night. Please take a look at my steps and see if I am just totally in the wrong. I do not have the space, equipment, or wife approval for a permanent QT setup, so temporary 5g buckets is my option...

Attempt #1: purchased 4 banggai, and placed them in my 5g bucket full of fresh saltwater at 1.022/77*F, with an airstone and heater. They died the next day.

Attempt #2: purchased 2 banggai, and placed them in my 5g bucket with 50% fresh saltwater and 50% water from my reef tank, with an airstone and heater. All but one died in QT...the one lasted a month and when I placed him in my reef tank, died overnight.

Attempt #3: purchased 1 coral beauty and 1 mandarin, and placed in my 5g bucket with 75% fresh saltwater and 25% water from my reef tank, with an airstone and heater. The coral beauty constantly swam on it's side at the surface, almost trying to keep it's head out of the water. It died overnight, the mandarin is fine.

I am cleaning the equipment with super hot water and vinegar only, then letting fully dry between use. The heater is working properly and no electrocution. My LFS' are baffled since banggai are traditionally hardy animals...and this coral beauty was indeed beautiful, energetic and fat. I still want more fish in my tank, but I keep killing them before they can really set up shop in QT.

What else should I try?

 

[mike89t]

Check out this thread:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Cell]

No drip acclimation? Just mixing some fresh saltwater and tank water and dumping the fish in?

 

[costaricareef]

I don't see any biological filtration, like a small hang-on filter with a sponge or something to combat the ammonia spikes. 5g is a very small volume, maybe that's the cause. Did you test for ammonia or nitrites?

 

[mike89t]

You need some sort of filtration. I use a sponge filter that has completed the nitrogen cycle.

 

[Phyber]

Check out this thread:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

I've read that, however I'm not even making it past day 2, let alone a 9 week QT cycle.

I was thinking ammonia issues, but again this is brand new water? I thought about adding some pieces of live rock to perhaps kick off beneficial bacteria growth...but again...this is a new fish in new water and dies within 24 hours...

 

[Cell]

You dont need a permanent QT setup. A 10 gallon temporary setup that you break down and store when QT is complete would work ok too.

 

[Clo]

Is the 1.022 what you tested from the LFS or your tank?

 

[Phyber]

I don't see any biological filtration, like a small hang-on filter with a sponge or something to combat the ammonia spikes. 5g is a very small volume, maybe that's the cause. Did you test for ammonia or nitrites?

I understand 5g isn't ideal, however they aren't even living long enough to get tired of the space...My reef tank water has been consistent at or below 1ppm of Nitrate. I can try adding cycled live rock rubble to the bucket and trying again?

 

[Phyber]

Is the 1.022 what you tested from the LFS or your tank?

That is the sg of the bucket water, that the fish will QT into. I am acclimating them while still in their LFS bag over the course of an hour or so.

 

[Clo]

That is the sg of the bucket water, that the fish will QT into. I am acclimating them while still in their LFS bag over the course of an hour or so.

What is the salinity of the water the fish are coming in? Do you happen to know?

 

[mike89t]

I've read that, however I'm not even making it past day 2, let alone a 9 week QT cycle.

I was thinking ammonia issues, but again this is brand new water? I thought about adding some pieces of live rock to perhaps kick off beneficial bacteria growth...but again...this is a new fish in new water and dies within 24 hours...

Need some sort of filtration or Ammonia will build up quickly. Especially in a 5 gallon

 

[fachatga]

Have you tested the water for ammonia after your fish died?

 

[mike89t]

I've read that, however I'm not even making it past day 2, let alone a 9 week QT cycle.

I was thinking ammonia issues, but again this is brand new water? I thought about adding some pieces of live rock to perhaps kick off beneficial bacteria growth...but again...this is a new fish in new water and dies within 24 hours...

I would replace your air stone with a sponge filter. You can run the sponge filter in your sump for a month to initially establish bacteria in it. You can pick up a 10 gallon tank for cheap as well. You want to be able to observe your fish while they are in Quarantine. Test your QT like you would your display to make sure it has cycled before adding fish.

Sponge Filter Aquatics

Sponge Filters are great to have on hand for quarantine tanks, hospital tanks, and really any other time you may have a temporary tank set up to hold livestock. By hooking an air pump up to the sponge filter, and placing at the bottom of the aquarium, water will be drawn into the sponge allowing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Petco has a 10 gallon for $10 right now:

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-standard-glass-aquarium-tank-10-gallon

 

[Tamberav]

I do hybrid TTM with 5g buckets which means they are not cycled. I do one fish at a time in that small of amount of water.

It’s not generally an issue.

What is the salinity at the LFS? You want to match your QT water to LFS to start IMO and let it evaporate up to the correct salinity or change slowly over time. This would be ideal and one of the benefits of a QT.

Do you have a thermometer and verified the temperature is correct? It is easy for a heater to overheat a 5g. Their built in thermostats are not great. I don’t even use a heater in the 5gs in summer. Lower temperatures will hold more oxygen and make it easier for fish to breath.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree with the others above, there is no biofiltration in a bucket, putting tank water doesnt matter, you need to put a few rocks in in the bucket with a powerhead.

 

[davidcalgary29]

In addition to the great advice given above, I think you need to ask the LFS some questions...such as the provenance of the fish; what and how they're eating; and if the store has any quarantine procedure whatsoever. I've found that the hardiest fish that I've purchased have all been captive-bred -- you can even get some captive bred centropyge angels these days.

But angels do need highly oxygenated water, and I don't think that I'm going to go out on a limb by suggesting that this also applies to any other stressed fish in quarantine. I use a HOB filter and a powerhead for my 15g QT; an airstone just doesn't give enough aeration, I think, for this situation.

 

[Df1577]

If they are dying overnight it sounds like you aren't matching salinity during acclimation and then letting them into the QT and shocking them. Could also be ammonia buildup though I'm not sure that would reach dangerous levels that fast.

 

[Hal3134]

If they’re dying within 24 hours then ammonia isn’t the problem. I’d check salinity and pH of your tank and the LFS. Its either an acclimation issue or stress.

1.022 seems a little low, but should be tolerable for a healthy fish.

FWIW, my success with QT went up dramatically when I added lots of plastic plants to break up the sight line and offer hiding spots. It reduces stress.

 

[ying yang]

I don't see any biological filtration, like a small hang-on filter with a sponge or something to combat the ammonia spikes. 5g is a very small volume, maybe that's the cause. Did you test for ammonia or nitrites?

Was thinking exactly same thing.
But my understanding of amnonia burning gills and toxicity to fish takes couple of days unless extremely high.
Maybe as others have said use an internal sponge filter which is cycled and after qt of fish finished break down and store qt tank and ( if used any medications then bin the sponge and clean filter and add new sponge to filter and run filter in your sump until need set up qt next time.
But as others have said check how you acliminating them to ph/salinity/temperature etc etc and make sure enough oxygen in water on them small 5g buckets with small surface area for gas exchange