IVERMECTIN and DYACIDE to Kill an Unidentified Parasitic “BROWN BUG” on SPS

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,087
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Several months ago, I obtained 10 SPS frags from a seller on Ebay. At the time, I had 8 frags already in my Q-tank. All frags were dipped with my usual procedure:

-50:50 mix with seller’s and my water; 10 minutes with pinch of Interceptor
-Transfer to container with Coral RX: 1.25 ml per cup for 5 min.
-Transfer to container with Bayer: 5ml per cup for 20 min.

After about 5 days, I noticed a Romel’s Watermelon starting to look “moth-eaten.” I performed another set of dips and under an operating microscope I found a couple of copepods that looked like “Red Bugs” but were smaller and brown. I am quite certain they are related, in the Tegastes genus, because of their similar “flea-like” appearance. Hopefully, someone may have an idea what the proper name is for these parasites; but for now, I will refer to them as “Brown Bugs” for lack of a better name. (Unfortunately, I was not able to get a photo of them using my iphone camera thru the microscope).

I added 0.5 cc of IVERMECTIN 1% injectable solution to the container harboring 2 of these parasites (in 2 oz water). IVERMECTIN is used primarily to treat intestinal (and tracheal) worms in animals but it also works very well to treat mites (e.g. “Scaley Face” in parakeets or “Air Sac Mites” in canaries). Copepods and mites are both arthropods which ivermectin targets.

After 8 hours, the bugs would still scoot around when disturbed, but were dead the next morning (about 16 hours). This dose and length of dipping time would not be practical, of course, but it does suggest that IVERMECTIN may have some deleterious effect on the parasite.

I then added 2cc of IVERMECTIN to the 30 gal Q-system, once a day for 3 consecutive days. I also ordered an organophosphate, Dyacide, which arrived 1 week later. At this time, I dipped the frags again and found 2 more live bugs (with the aid of an operating microscope), one in a mucous-like mass on the frag. These bugs are very difficult to find. Unlike Red Bugs, they can’t be seen with the naked eye. So, I suspected that there were probably more in the tank along with eggs.

I decided to use an organophosphate because of an unrelated, but interesting experience I had over 16 years ago (which I will describe at the end of this post). DYACIDE comes as a powder in a bottle. You just fill the bottle with RO/DI water to the top and dose 2 drops per gallon for 3 consecutive days. The problem was that I wanted to repeat this treatment regime for a total of 3 weeks but the solution is only stable for 3 days once constituted. So, I removed the powder from the bottle and weighed it (0.57 gms) and measured the volume of the bottle (34 ml). I calculated that I should dose 0.06 gms of powder in the 30 gal tank for each dose. (Note that it is difficult to measure this minute amount very accurately). This way, I could stretch out the treatment for the 3 weeks.

My hopes were that the combination of relatively low doses of TWO compounds would be safer AND more likely to eliminate these bugs than by using just one drug alone. 10% water changes were performed before each treatment and that was continued (once-a-week) afterwards. After the third week of treatment, I examined the frags at least once a week for several weeks and found no more parasites. But, because of the difficulty finding these parasites, I waited another 3 months before moving the frags to my main tank just to play it safe. I did lose the Rommel’s watermelon, but it was in bad shape to begin with. I also lost a Hawkins ecchinata and Ponape Bird’s Nest, but I suspect that they couldn’t handle all the dips. All the other frags survived, including some “high end” frags (e.g. Lady in Pink; ASD Rainbow mille; JF solar flare and Highlighter; TSA Fruity Pebbles; WWC All Star) although most “browned out” during the stressful time in the Q-tank. All the corals are looking better now, 1 month after moving to my main tank and I am convinced that all the parasites are gone.

Products I used:
Dyacide and ivomec.jpg




NOTES:

  1. When using DYACIDE (an organophosphate) do not touch the chemical OR treated water with your skin. (Supposedly, though, the chemical breaks down in a “short” time in water).
  2. Because of the limited number of parasites I had available to work with, I was limited with the extent of my experimentation. But I think that the combination of these two drugs should be considered for anyone having problems with any stubborn “bug” (e.g. Black Bugs). With further experimenting, fine-tuning dosages may be possible.
  3. One of the most exciting things I found: Just a couple hours after 2cc of IVERMECTIN was added to the 30 gal Q-tank, an 8” Fire Worm emerged from a rock in a very weakened state and just laid on the bottom of the tank. Some of you may recall my thread on Fire Worms killing over 30 SPS frags before I figured out that they were the culprit! I thought I got rid of them long ago, but apparently not. The fire worms came in with 2 batches of KP rock a couple of years ago. I do plan to buy more of this rock but will treat a “rock Q-tank” with Ivermectin @ 2-4 cc/30 gal to get rid of them. They are a nightmare and I am VERY happy that I found a way to deal with them!
  4. My Past Experience with Organophosphates: 16 years ago, I used to buy fish from a local wholesaler for my small pet shop associated with my vet hospital. There was a time when practically every fish purchased, in 2 or 3 batches, died and it wasn’t from the common parasites for which I always treated. Finally, I isolated parasitic isopods on some of the fish. At the time, there was a powdered organophosphate product (Trichlorfon) available that came in a jar which was easy to dose. Apparently, this product is no longer available so I chose the closely related DYACIDE (Dimethyltrichlorophosphonate) to treat the “Brown Bug” infestation. Since the Trichlorfon worked great to eliminate the fish isopods, I guessed and hoped that the “Brown Bug” might be killed by the DYACIDE since isopods and copepods are so closely related. (I told the wholesaler about this parasite and offered assistance to treat his facility but I was ignored. Two months later, they went out of business!)
  5. Snails, sponges, tube worms (and aiptasia) all seem to be spared during the above-mentioned treatment.


Here is a photo (taken 16 years ago) of the parasitic FISH ISOPOD.
THIS IS NOT THE “BROWN BUG” I DESCRIBED ABOVE !!
(Unfortunately, my “modern-day” iphone would not let me take a photo of the Brown Bugs thru the same microscope I used 16 years ago when I had a “cheap” camera phone used for the photo below!)
Isopod, DV.jpg
 

Reefer45C

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
147
Reaction score
118
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
this is very interesting... I wonder if you maybe able to find something that looks like the "brown bug" you seen in the scope? Or maybe even draw out what that creature looked like so others can chime in on a ID.
 

Nigel35

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,012
Reaction score
788
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Several months ago, I obtained 10 SPS frags from a seller on Ebay. At the time, I had 8 frags already in my Q-tank. All frags were dipped with my usual procedure:

-50:50 mix with seller’s and my water; 10 minutes with pinch of Interceptor
-Transfer to container with Coral RX: 1.25 ml per cup for 5 min.
-Transfer to container with Bayer: 5ml per cup for 20 min.

After about 5 days, I noticed a Romel’s Watermelon starting to look “moth-eaten.” I performed another set of dips and under an operating microscope I found a couple of copepods that looked like “Red Bugs” but were smaller and brown. I am quite certain they are related, in the Tegastes genus, because of their similar “flea-like” appearance. Hopefully, someone may have an idea what the proper name is for these parasites; but for now, I will refer to them as “Brown Bugs” for lack of a better name. (Unfortunately, I was not able to get a photo of them using my iphone camera thru the microscope).

I added 0.5 cc of IVERMECTIN 1% injectable solution to the container harboring 2 of these parasites (in 2 oz water). IVERMECTIN is used primarily to treat intestinal (and tracheal) worms in animals but it also works very well to treat mites (e.g. “Scaley Face” in parakeets or “Air Sac Mites” in canaries). Copepods and mites are both arthropods which ivermectin targets.

After 8 hours, the bugs would still scoot around when disturbed, but were dead the next morning (about 16 hours). This dose and length of dipping time would not be practical, of course, but it does suggest that IVERMECTIN may have some deleterious effect on the parasite.

I then added 2cc of IVERMECTIN to the 30 gal Q-system, once a day for 3 consecutive days. I also ordered an organophosphate, Dyacide, which arrived 1 week later. At this time, I dipped the frags again and found 2 more live bugs (with the aid of an operating microscope), one in a mucous-like mass on the frag. These bugs are very difficult to find. Unlike Red Bugs, they can’t be seen with the naked eye. So, I suspected that there were probably more in the tank along with eggs.

I decided to use an organophosphate because of an unrelated, but interesting experience I had over 16 years ago (which I will describe at the end of this post). DYACIDE comes as a powder in a bottle. You just fill the bottle with RO/DI water to the top and dose 2 drops per gallon for 3 consecutive days. The problem was that I wanted to repeat this treatment regime for a total of 3 weeks but the solution is only stable for 3 days once constituted. So, I removed the powder from the bottle and weighed it (0.57 gms) and measured the volume of the bottle (34 ml). I calculated that I should dose 0.06 gms of powder in the 30 gal tank for each dose. (Note that it is difficult to measure this minute amount very accurately). This way, I could stretch out the treatment for the 3 weeks.

My hopes were that the combination of relatively low doses of TWO compounds would be safer AND more likely to eliminate these bugs than by using just one drug alone. 10% water changes were performed before each treatment and that was continued (once-a-week) afterwards. After the third week of treatment, I examined the frags at least once a week for several weeks and found no more parasites. But, because of the difficulty finding these parasites, I waited another 3 months before moving the frags to my main tank just to play it safe. I did lose the Rommel’s watermelon, but it was in bad shape to begin with. I also lost a Hawkins ecchinata and Ponape Bird’s Nest, but I suspect that they couldn’t handle all the dips. All the other frags survived, including some “high end” frags (e.g. Lady in Pink; ASD Rainbow mille; JF solar flare and Highlighter; TSA Fruity Pebbles; WWC All Star) although most “browned out” during the stressful time in the Q-tank. All the corals are looking better now, 1 month after moving to my main tank and I am convinced that all the parasites are gone.

Products I used:
Dyacide and ivomec.jpg




NOTES:

  1. When using DYACIDE (an organophosphate) do not touch the chemical OR treated water with your skin. (Supposedly, though, the chemical breaks down in a “short” time in water).
  2. Because of the limited number of parasites I had available to work with, I was limited with the extent of my experimentation. But I think that the combination of these two drugs should be considered for anyone having problems with any stubborn “bug” (e.g. Black Bugs). With further experimenting, fine-tuning dosages may be possible.
  3. One of the most exciting things I found: Just a couple hours after 2cc of IVERMECTIN was added to the 30 gal Q-tank, an 8” Fire Worm emerged from a rock in a very weakened state and just laid on the bottom of the tank. Some of you may recall my thread on Fire Worms killing over 30 SPS frags before I figured out that they were the culprit! I thought I got rid of them long ago, but apparently not. The fire worms came in with 2 batches of KP rock a couple of years ago. I do plan to buy more of this rock but will treat a “rock Q-tank” with Ivermectin @ 2-4 cc/30 gal to get rid of them. They are a nightmare and I am VERY happy that I found a way to deal with them!
  4. My Past Experience with Organophosphates: 16 years ago, I used to buy fish from a local wholesaler for my small pet shop associated with my vet hospital. There was a time when practically every fish purchased, in 2 or 3 batches, died and it wasn’t from the common parasites for which I always treated. Finally, I isolated parasitic isopods on some of the fish. At the time, there was a powdered organophosphate product (Trichlorfon) available that came in a jar which was easy to dose. Apparently, this product is no longer available so I chose the closely related DYACIDE (Dimethyltrichlorophosphonate) to treat the “Brown Bug” infestation. Since the Trichlorfon worked great to eliminate the fish isopods, I guessed and hoped that the “Brown Bug” might be killed by the DYACIDE since isopods and copepods are so closely related. (I told the wholesaler about this parasite and offered assistance to treat his facility but I was ignored. Two months later, they went out of business!)
  5. Snails, sponges, tube worms (and aiptasia) all seem to be spared during the above-mentioned treatment.


Here is a photo (taken 16 years ago) of the parasitic FISH ISOPOD.
THIS IS NOT THE “BROWN BUG” I DESCRIBED ABOVE !!
(Unfortunately, my “modern-day” iphone would not let me take a photo of the Brown Bugs thru the same microscope I used 16 years ago when I had a “cheap” camera phone used for the photo below!)
Isopod, DV.jpg
That is quite a unique but effective solution. Who would have known that a common horse medicine could be used for such a problem...
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,087
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Did they look like these Jim?
08038F90-4EF6-4374-B02C-6C6B6414509E.jpeg
I could not see them with the "naked eye" so I have to conclude that they were smaller than what you are showing in the photo.

@Reefer45C It kills me that I don't have a photo. I'm sorry I couldn't get my iphone 11 to shoot thru the microscope lens! At the time, I was more interested in just looking to see if any of my methods would kill them. The best I can say is that they had the shape of a Red Bug, a Tegastes, but weren't red.

This body shape from the photo below is definitely SIMILAR to what I saw, but I can't be so sure of the details to say it was this particular one. Although an exact identification would be nice, I think what is most important is the possibility of the ivermectin in conjunction with Dyacide possibly being a cure for some of these more resistant bugs.

image027.jpg


Figure 143. Tegastes gemmeus, a copepod known to infest Hawai’ian corals. This is a typical dorsal view of Tegastes and Parategastes.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,087
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is quite a unique but effective solution. Who would have known that a common horse medicine could be used for such a problem...
It's hard to know which one (Ivomec or Dyacide) was more effective, if both were necessary or if either one alone would be sufficient. My guess is that the Dyacide might be the most important if only one was to be used. But the combo still makes sense to me.
If I only had more parasites I could have probably figured this out! Darn! I wish I had more parasites! :rolleyes:
 

bnord

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
15,321
Location
Athens
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is quite a unique but effective solution. Who would have known that a common horse medicine could be used for such a problem...
Ivermectin is a long standing anthelmintic for animals; companion animals, all production animals, as well as horses. used in treating sea lice in commercial salmon too.

You can look it up, but there is a great story about its use in humans, but not for covid.

Onchocerciasis, known as river blindness, is a fliarid parasite transmitted by a biting fly in Africa. The worm infects and moves to the eye of the infected patient and causes a progressive blindness. The expression, "the blind leading the blind" comes from the observation of the least blind member of the village would lead the pack of a more blind through the village.

The drug, developed for animal health by Merck, was developed for the river blindness indication, and donated by Merck for over 30 years and was responsible for an eradication of the disease in several areas.

It has a very specific pathway in order to kill the worms, and has been shown to have some moderate immunomodulatory capabilities, it is not an antiviral - ie.e., kill covid

just sayin'
 
OP
OP
Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
1,343
Reaction score
1,087
Location
Naples, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Interesting story! Thanks for that!

Let's not forget that Ivermectin is good for mites also. As an Avian Specialist, I've used it numerous times on birds. It is diluted down about 10 times and usually 1 drop on the skin will be all that is needed for tiny birds, or a few drops for a chicken. This reminds me: I forgot to mention to NOT get this on your skin because it is easily absorbed via topical application on skin! (Similar to the organophosphate, Dyacide.)

And, BTW, I'm not sure,....but it may be possible to purchase both drugs online without a prescription.
 

Nigel35

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,012
Reaction score
788
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ivermectin is a long standing anthelmintic for animals; companion animals, all production animals, as well as horses. used in treating sea lice in commercial salmon too.

You can look it up, but there is a great story about its use in humans, but not for covid.

Onchocerciasis, known as river blindness, is a fliarid parasite transmitted by a biting fly in Africa. The worm infects and moves to the eye of the infected patient and causes a progressive blindness. The expression, "the blind leading the blind" comes from the observation of the least blind member of the village would lead the pack of a more blind through the village.

The drug, developed for animal health by Merck, was developed for the river blindness indication, and donated by Merck for over 30 years and was responsible for an eradication of the disease in several areas.

It has a very specific pathway in order to kill the worms, and has been shown to have some moderate immunomodulatory capabilities, it is not an antiviral - ie.e., kill covid

just sayin'
Very interesting, I had only heard of it being applied in equestrian settings. Wether it is effective against covid who knows
 

bnord

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
15,321
Location
Athens
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Interesting story! Thanks for that!

Let's not forget that Ivermectin is good for mites also. As an Avian Specialist, I've used it numerous times on birds. It is diluted down about 10 times and usually 1 drop on the skin will be all that is needed for tiny birds, or a few drops for a chicken. This reminds me: I forgot to mention to NOT get this on your skin because it is easily absorbed via topical application on skin! (Similar to the organophosphate, Dyacide.)

And, BTW, I'm not sure,....but it may be possible to purchase both drugs online without a prescription.
yes you are right, and I too have had a career in avian medicine, on the vaccine side primarily - working now on a fish vaccine for edwardsiella
 

bnord

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
15,321
Location
Athens
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Very interesting, I had only heard of it being applied in equestrian settings. Wether it is effective against covid who knows
if people can get access to the human formulation it does no direct harm. The harm is that folks would choose this over the Pfizer antiviral which has proven therapeutic effect.
now if people use horse paste, they are just foolish and stubborn
 

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,261
Reaction score
1,179
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is quite a unique but effective solution. Who would have known that a common horse medicine could be used for such a problem...

Ivermectin is also on the WHO’s list of essential human medicines and was invaluable in the treatment of hundreds of millions of people. The creator received a Nobel prize for this amazing pharmaceutical. The fact that it’s been recently downplayed as a “horse dewormer” is a shame; Ivermectin is a vitally essential medicine in many parts of the world and has been demonstrated to be effective at a wide variety of of-label uses, as well as incredibly safe.

And yes, given that it is an anti-helmenthic, it will almost assuredly be effective against polychaetes like fireworms.
 

NewCaliCaptives

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
257
Reaction score
265
Location
Wichita, KS
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ivermectin is also on the WHO’s list of essential human medicines and was invaluable in the treatment of hundreds of millions of people. The creator received a Nobel prize for this amazing pharmaceutical. The fact that it’s been recently downplayed as a “horse dewormer” is a shame; Ivermectin is a vitally essential medicine in many parts of the world and has been demonstrated to be effective at a wide variety of of-label uses, as well as incredibly safe.

And yes, given that it is an anti-helmenthic, it will almost assuredly be effective against polychaetes like fireworms.
anybody who does their own research knows ivermectin is more than just a “horse dewormer”. Problem is most people think watching the news IS doing their own research!
 

Reefing threads: Do you wear gear from reef brands?

  • I wear reef gear everywhere.

    Votes: 20 14.3%
  • I wear reef gear primarily at fish events and my LFS.

    Votes: 10 7.1%
  • I wear reef gear primarily for water changes and tank maintenance.

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • I wear reef gear primarily to relax where I live.

    Votes: 22 15.7%
  • I don’t wear gear from reef brands.

    Votes: 78 55.7%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.4%
Back
Top