Just got my first ATI ICP test results...yikes!

[clm65]

I just received the test results this morning. I knew I had some issues, but it is worse than I thought.

The results that were flagged as being off are:
PO4: 2.3 mg/l
N03: 419.5 mg/l (I get just under 100 with a Salifert test, but too high regardless)
Carbonate Hardness (Alk): 12.51 dKH
Calcium: 641 mg/l
Strontium: 12.54 mg/l
Silicon: 366.6 ug/l
Iodine: 0
Manganese: 0
Vanadium: 0.62ug/l

Everything else has a green check mark, even if the results are off from the given reference values. Of these, the only one that really stands out is aluminum, which is 15.27 ug/l vs a reference value of 0.10. I just tested pH, and it is 8.3.

I knew my phosphates and nitrates are high. I've add more live rock and 4 liters of Matrix to my sump a month or so ago. I have a good size ball of chaeto growing in my fuge, and I run a skimmer 24/7 (empty cup every 3 days typically). I reduced my feeding amount a couple of weeks ago (after I sent off the water samples, but my Hanna meter indicates that has not affected anything yet).

The tank is 180g (about 220 gallons total), up and running since 2000. I haven't historically done a lot of water changes, but I have done a total of about 200 gallons in the last 3 months. Fish all are doing great (blue tang, yellow tang, 2 clowns, Eibli angel, 3 damsels). Also 2 cleaner shrimp, a bunch of snails, and tons of pods. I have a xenia that is doing really good, a small amount of gsp that is doing ok (but not spreading much), and a couple of ricordias that seem to be doing good (1 just split last week).

I have some Phosphate Rx, Phosphate-E, and NO3PO4-X on hand, as well as some GFO and a reactor. I was planning to go after the phosphates with the Phosphate-E first, and added 25 ml yesterday, which brought my phosphates down about 25 ppm. I am planning to do this every other day until results are more reasonable, and then try to keep it down with the GFO. I also have 4 more liters of Matrix to add to my sump for nitrate reduction.

So, now that the test results are in, what would be the right way to go after my issues? I have read that water changes will prevent the Alk and calcium from naturally dropping, so should I hold off on doing any water changes for a while?

Thanks in advance!

 

[LIreefguy]

Why would water charges stop your alk and Calcium from dropping

What salt you use
Also imo water changes are the most important thing you can do for your reef tank for many reason, one being to take out detritus before it breaks down into nutrients and also to help reduces unwanted elements that might be up slowly

Also imo nopox is great at reducing nitrates. It worked for me and also helped me lower my Phosphates. You don’t use Gfo with it until after you get your nitrates to a low level

 

[EMeyer]

Since both calcium and alkalinity are about 50% higher than natural seawater levels, you may want to double check your salinity with a newly calibrated device, or better yet with two different devices. When I find high levels in major elements it typically means elevated salinity.

 

[clm65]

Why would water charges stop your alk and Calcium from dropping

What salt you use
Also imo water changes are the most important thing you can do for your reef tank for many reason, one being to take out detritus before it breaks down into nutrients and also to help reduces unwanted elements that might be up slowly

Also imo nopox is great at reducing nitrates. It worked for me and also helped me lower my Phosphates. You don’t use Gfo with it until after you get your nitrates to a low level

I've read that salt (maybe not all) have high levels of calcium and alk, and end up raising levels. Not sure if that is valid or not. I use Fritz Pro RPM. Maybe I should go with the nopox first? Do you know if Phosphate-E could be added every other day while dosing nopox daily? I know...patience...but I really would like to get my phosphates (and nitrates) at least marginally decent fairly soon.

 

[clm65]

Since both calcium and alkalinity are about 50% higher than natural seawater levels, you may want to double check your salinity with a newly calibrated device, or better yet with two different devices. When I find high levels in major elements it typically means elevated salinity.

Salinity is 35.56 per the ATI test, which is in very close agreement with my Milwaukee digital refractometer and my manual refractometer. This seems to be within acceptable limits, albeit slightly on the higher side. I can easily reduce it though.

Edit: And yes, I did calibrate both my refractometers before use.

 

[LIreefguy]

No you can’t use any other Phosphates reducer while using nopox

Reason is the bacteria needs both nitrates and Phosphates to work.
Your tank will find its levels Just be patient

 

[clm65]

No you can’t use any other Phosphates reducer while using nopox

Reason is the bacteria needs both nitrates and Phosphates to work.
Your tank will find its levels Just be patient

Yup, just read the label and it says it "should not be used in conjunction with phosphate reducers". Thanks! Any tips for the alk & calcium?

 

[LIreefguy]

Just water changes to let them drop naturally over time
Not sure what level Fritz pro

Double check that

Make sure your mixing water at 1.026 and you should be good

 

[clm65]

From the Fritz website, calcium in their salt is 400-450 ppm, and alkalinity is 8.0-9.0 dKH. So not excessive, and if I am replacing an equal amount that has a higher calc and alk level, it should bring it down a little.

As far as the nopox, I am going to add ~25 ml daily based on my current levels, and eventually reduce it in accordance with the table on the bottle. Do I just add the 25 ml all at once? Or should it be dripped or slowly added over a period of time? And should it go into the sump, or directly into the tank? The directions are not very clear.

 

[LIreefguy]

Your tank is 120 plus sump of 20 gallons right ?

My nitrates where around 80-90 and I have 600 gallons and I only used 40 ml

I start out at 15ml and retest after 3 weeks. I now only dose 20 ml a day

I add it directly in the sump once a day in the morning

Ps you might get a slime looking substance or cryno from nopox but it will eventually go away. If your getting a lot of this you might want to cut back on nopox a little

 

[clm65]

180 gallon plus about 40 gallon sump. According to the instructions on the bottle, for my nitrate level, I should be dosing 3 ml per 25 gallons. So that comes out to about 27 ml. Once my levels are much lower, the recommended dose is about 1/3 of that.

 

[User1]

Well keep in mind that you should be dosing based on what your actual water volume is and not math based on tank and sump size. Rocks and sand take up space which reduce your actual water volume. There are a couple calculators out there. My example is 210 gallon tank + 16 gallon sump - 150 lbs of rock, 200 lbs of sand and I'm around 170 gallons.

Go back to the NoPox instructions which is 3 ml per 25, right? 170/25=6.8 x 3 = 20.4 ml. Now when I dosed NoPox the word on the street is to start lower than what is in the instructions, test to know starting points, dose, then test again in 2 days, repeat. It reduces both Nitrate and Phosphate and can deplete it to bingo nutrients quickly if you are not careful.

I ended up cutting my initial dose in half to about 10 ml if I remember correctly and then on the 2nd week upped it to 17 ml then after that and the numbers got to where I wanted I went backwords to a normal maintenance dose until no longer needed. They general consensus of people using it all recommended using your actual water volume to get dose, scale back by 1/2 or 1/3, test, dose daily, test every other day for the first week or so to get the pulse of your tank...

Edit: Also noted above someone said they dose in the morning. That is a good idea btw because this will lower your pH. If you are using a dosing pump just spread it out during the day rather than at night. If you have a controller you will see the dip(s).

 

[clm65]

Yes, good point on the total volume. I’ve got a pretty big sump and refugium, but I do need to figure out what I really have. I will start dosing a smaller amount as you suggest, and test every couple of days and dial it in from there. I do not have a dosing pump, but I am considering getting one. It would probably be a good investment and keep me honest on my dosing. Thanks!

 

[User1]

Yes, good point on the total volume. I’ve got a pretty big sump and refugium, but I do need to figure out what I really have. I will start dosing a smaller amount as you suggest, and test every couple of days and dial it in from there. I do not have a dosing pump, but I am considering getting one. It would probably be a good investment and keep me honest on my dosing. Thanks!

Welcome, and good luck. Note on dosing. Use glass containers. I was going to use my Apex Dosing container(s) when I read somewhere that NoPox should be used in a glass bottle. I've since followed a couple DIY containers that use the 800 ML Voss Water bottles. They work really well actually and are durable.

NoPox works really well. At least it did in my tank and I was able to see the nutrients start to go down. I don't remember why I stopped it but one thing lead to another and I'm back to useing it again. Along with Vibrant. My issue is Pukani dry rock and its excessive phosphates that I'm tring to control. Bouncing through a couple different algae outbreaks even after a year of uptime and maturing. Go figure.

 

[clm65]

I started adding the nopox Saturday morning. Based on the volume calculator, I have a net volume of about 207 gallons, which puts me at about 25 ml nopox per day. I cut this in half, so about 12 ml/day for starters. I just tested my water, and phosphates are 2.5 ppm, so it seems to have actually gone up a little. Does this mean I should increase the dosage a little bit? Or is it still too early to tell?

 

[clm65]

Hopefully I can get a little feedback here. I upped the dose to 25 ml of nopox starting Friday morning. Tested a few minutes ago and I'm still at 2.5 ppm phosphates. I think 2.5 is the upper level of the Hanna 713, so it may actually be higher. I know patience is important, but how long should it take to start seeing some sort of improvement? I'm wondering if my phosphates are so high that the nopox is overmatched. Maybe I should stop the nopox for now and try to get the phosphates down to a reasonable level, like less than 1.0, with Phosphate Rx or Phosphate-E, and then resume the nopox? Any thoughts are appreciated!