Kessil Lights: Why is everyone selling them?

[siggy]

those test comparisons are intriguing for sure , so how is it I am bleaching corals if i run higher than 50-60 % agian my 360's are 14" above the water and tank is 20" deep the yumas located on the sand totally bleached running blues and about 20% white in the late afternoon and into the evenings for viewing , now i noticed a challis has lightening on two high ridges and had to be moved into a corner.

Those of you Having success with Kessils out there specifically with SPS some help would be welcomed, I am now concerned with not giving them the needed
lighting.

 

[bif24701]

those test comparisons are intriguing for sure , so how is it I am bleaching corals if i run higher than 50-60 % agian my 360's are 14" above the water and tank is 20" deep the yumas located on the sand totally bleached running blues and about 20% white in the late afternoon and into the evenings for viewing , now i noticed a challis has lightening on two high ridges and had to be moved into a corner.

Those of you Having success with Kessils out there specifically with SPS some help would be welcomed, I am now concerned with not giving them the needed
lighting.

Lighting intensity needs to match your nutrients and nutritional input. If you don't have PO4 and NO3 or feed your corals they need less intense light.

 

[bif24701]

I always use this chart thanks to aqua illumination.

So for the same price you can get more par, more spread, a better light build and more innovative.

Even the AI Prime HD puts the kessil to shame. Sure the kessil has the shimmer and the ability to show coral off but I think that's where it stops.

So the question is this. Why even buy it in the first place? Not saying they are bad lights but take this into consideration. It's one light source so there is shadowing yes, it's a $400 light that has to have a separate controller unlike prime HD, and it seems like these lights get passed more than black boxes do. I had an 160we in a lagoon 25 and sure it looked nice but it didn't grow well. That's my experience. So the price you pay for a kessil you can get a light that's 5x better for the money and will grow corals much better and have upgraded features.

Thanks to AI for publishing a chart making their fixtures seem superior. [emoji33]

 

[bif24701]

I've have ran Kessil's off and on since 2012 when the a350w's first came out.
The Kessil Logic is a lot better than the a350's but the color balance is a lot tighter.
I have grown and still grow SPS with Kessil's.
I would have to say that MH/T5 is still the gold standard.There are certain species of coral and inverts that just don't do well under anybody's led's. The closest thing maybe the Philip's Coral care to MH/T5.
Lighting is only one of many factors to healthy corals but I have to give kudo's to Kessil on a great product it it fits ones tank specs.
When it comes down to led lighting. There is no one best, just like protein skimmers. Only ones opinion.
I run a Kessil/T5 hybird and if I had to go all led today. Then the GHL Mitra's would be a better fit for my tanks dimensions then any of the Kessil's that are on the market today and I'd take the GHL's over Radions any day of the week but that's JMO.

This is a nice discussion as @minus9 just said and I hope we can all keep it civil.

Regards, GoVols

I'll have to agree with you partly here.

Where I differ is to say that a combo of the Kessil AP700 and T5s is the top dog.

The AP700 spectrum is a neat carbon copy of the ATI Blue Plus bulbs and the combination of the to has serious fire power.

One more thing:
You don't need more than 200-300 PAR.

My combination puts out 500-600 par everywhere but the very bottom of my tank and my corals are able to do well like this because I match my feeding and nutrients to my intensity. If you have less light then you don't need as much intensity and can still have wonderful colorful growing corals.

 

[Reefcowboy]

I'll have to agree with you partly here.

Where I differ is to say that a combo of the Kessil AP700 and T5s is the top dog.

The AP700 spectrum is a neat carbon copy of the ATI Blue Plus bulbs and the combination of the to has serious fire power.

One more thing:
You don't need more than 200-300 PAR.

My combination puts out 500-600 par everywhere but the very bottom of my tank and my corals are able to do well like this because I match my feeding and nutrients to my intensity. If you have less light then you don't need as much intensity and can still have wonderful colorful growing corals.

I agree with all said. Ive also found out 200 par would keep most sps corals very happy. I also agree the combo AP700+T5 is the big winner these days. I have a tank with an OrphekV3+ doing great.

I had an ATI 6 bulb T5's running another tank and could not handle so much light. I placed the fixture 18" above water and ran all bulbs only 3 -4 hrs a day and still bleached the hell out of some sps. I switched over to the Radion G4's and am extremelly happy with what I have seen so far. Colors do seem to have gotten better.

I have been the most suspicious guy in regards to leds. Never trusted them completely as sole source of light. Had most success with halides, but must say these radions G4 are indeed something worth the try.

I believe Kessil will come out with a new fixture soon. Like I had posted here before, they should come out with something similar to the radions(two pucks and smaller fixture) allowing the hobbyist to place lets say two units over a 48" tank. The AP700 has tremendous coverage but Kessil stretches it out too much so some corals get shadowing requiring the T5's.

IMO AP700's with T5's look horrible over a tank(fixtures),such a beautiful fixture should keep things happy by itself these days. Im by no means saying it cant be done, as some tanks lit by them are incredible, but most people on its forums have chosen the hybrid combo.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Might be a noob question, but why is everyone always talking about shadowing. I've had one for as long as I can remember.

 

[siggy]

Might be a noob question, but why is everyone always talking about shadowing. I've had one for as long as I can remember.

DUUDE

 

[bif24701]

I agree with all said. Ive also found out 200 par would keep most sps corals very happy. I also agree the combo AP700+T5 is the big winner these days. I have a tank with an OrphekV3+ doing great.

I had an ATI 6 bulb T5's running another tank and could not handle so much light. I placed the fixture 18" above water and ran all bulbs only 3 -4 hrs a day and still bleached the hell out of some sps. I switched over to the Radion G4's and am extremelly happy with what I have seen so far. Colors do seem to have gotten better.

I have been the most suspicious guy in regards to leds. Never trusted them completely as sole source of light. Had most success with halides, but must say these radions G4 are indeed something worth the try.

I believe Kessil will come out with a new fixture soon. Like I had posted here before, they should come out with something similar to the radions(two pucks and smaller fixture) allowing the hobbyist to place lets say two units over a 48" tank. The AP700 has tremendous coverage but Kessil stretches it out too much so some corals get shadowing requiring the T5's.

IMO AP700's with T5's look horrible over a tank(fixtures),such a beautiful fixture should keep things happy by itself these days. Im by no means saying it cant be done, as some tanks lit by them are incredible, but most people on its forums have chosen the hybrid combo.

I would need thee Radios to achieve what I do with only two Kessil AP700.

T5s required? Not in the least, but them together makes a world beater.

 

[bif24701]

These statements saying the AP700 needs T5s or that the shadowing is anymore than a problem than a Radion or AI are ludicrous. Apparently have never seen the light or have any idea how the AP700 is put together.

There is a key difference that you who do not own the light of have seen it up close have missed, the reflectors. So the G4 has new lenses, big deal. Kessil has had large spherical lens the whole time, not identical but server the same function. The biggest advantage is the reflector in the AP700 that further directs light in an even patten better than all the others. BRS conspired the Kessil head to head with other LEDs showing its ability to illuminate structures and declared the Kessil the winner proving without doubt it's the better fixture alone. So no T5s ever be needed. No other LED fixture is using this reflector technology.

I'll give you this, the Radion sure is capable of creating a heck of a hot spot under the light blowing away the Kessil in pure PAR race. If you ever get a chance to put a PAR meter under a Kessil AP700 in a 36" length like I have then you will clearly see what spread really is as well as power.

 

[GoVols]

These statements saying the AP700 needs T5s or that the shadowing is anymore than a problem than a Radion or AI are ludicrous. Apparently have never seen the light or have any idea how the AP700 is put together.

There is a key difference that you who do not own the light of have seen it up close have missed, the reflectors. So the G4 has new lenses, big deal. Kessil has had large spherical lens the whole time, not identical but server the same function. The biggest advantage is the reflector in the AP700 that further directs light in an even patten better than all the others. BRS conspired the Kessil head to head with other LEDs showing its ability to illuminate structures and declared the Kessil the winner proving without doubt it's the better fixture alone. So no T5s ever be needed. No other LED fixture is using this reflector technology.

I'll give you this, the Radion sure is capable of creating a heck of a hot spot under the light blowing away the Kessil in pure PAR race. If you ever get a chance to put a PAR meter under a Kessil AP700 in a 36" length like I have then you will clearly see what spread really is as well as power.

I have a 2013 Red Sea S 400 that came with the factory t5 canopy. Red Sea showed the original led upgrade in the video below.
I held out for this upgrade and all the sudden Red Sea did a 180 for the profits and came out with the hydra's. Ever one that I know that took the hydra upgrade has had to redo their rock scape to eliminate shadows.
So I modded my original canopy with 4 a80's and still push two t5's, With the t5's you can scape the way that you want and not scape to what your led's truly cover. Even my tunnels still have light.
Red Sea was going the way of the Philip's "CoralCare" and dropped the ball to make more money over what the old 10 bulb t5 canopy and this original led upgrade can do. If you watch the video you can see the S Series in it.

Now, I have the Kessil MH shimmer with the front and back t5 fill in and par. So not only do my corals grow up but the also grow out and full.

I spent about $650 counting the Kessil controller and 7 hours to complete the mod because I had to band saw and sand down the 5" heat sinks to 3.75" to fit inside my canopy's 2 bulb mid section but it was worth the results. A Kessil engineer took the time to guide me and he nailed it.

 

[Reefcowboy]

These statements saying the AP700 needs T5s or that the shadowing is anymore than a problem than a Radion or AI are ludicrous. Apparently have never seen the light or have any idea how the AP700 is put together.

There is a key difference that you who do not own the light of have seen it up close have missed, the reflectors. So the G4 has new lenses, big deal. Kessil has had large spherical lens the whole time, not identical but server the same function. The biggest advantage is the reflector in the AP700 that further directs light in an even patten better than all the others. BRS conspired the Kessil head to head with other LEDs showing its ability to illuminate structures and declared the Kessil the winner proving without doubt it's the better fixture alone. So no T5s ever be needed. No other LED fixture is using this reflector technology.

I'll give you this, the Radion sure is capable of creating a heck of a hot spot under the light blowing away the Kessil in pure PAR race. If you ever get a chance to put a PAR meter under a Kessil AP700 in a 36" length like I have then you will clearly see what spread really is as well as power.

Lol, I had no intentions to make the post a Kessil vs. Radion at all. The AP700 has no secrets at this point, yes we all know about its reflectors, trust me that shiny ring around the led cluster aint a miracle either. Ive seen that light in person many many times, was interested just like everyone else, and like the unit.

Im a big fan of Kessil as I think they are innovators. We all watched the BRS video of the AP700, I think everyone here thought back then this fixture was the best think since sliced bread. Not sure about "no T5's ever be needed" though, as if you read any forum users, at least 70% of them have T5's supplementing AP700's including the BRS tank.

I simply tried the G4's because it has been endorsed and having great results in many sps tanks(pro hobbyists, with no T5 supplementation)but that is my choice, nothing to do with the Kessil. Ive tried most leds out there, and might one day try another Kessil, who knows.

 

[bif24701]

Lol, I had no intentions to make the post a Kessil vs. Radion at all. The AP700 has no secrets at this point, yes we all know about its reflectors, trust me that shiny ring around the led cluster aint a miracle either. Ive seen that light in person many many times, was interested just like everyone else, and like the unit.

Im a big fan of Kessil as I think they are innovators. We all watched the BRS video of the AP700, I think everyone here thought back then this fixture was the best think since sliced bread. Not sure about "no T5's ever be needed" though, as if you read any forum users, at least 70% of them have T5's supplementing AP700's including the BRS tank.

I simply tried the G4's because it has been endorsed and having great results in many sps tanks(pro hobbyists, with no T5 supplementation)but that is my choice, nothing to do with the Kessil. Ive tried most leds out there, and might one day try another Kessil, who knows.

Lots of LED users add T5s, lots of T5 users add LED as well as MH. It's been the norm as long as I have been in the hobby to combine the strengths of two lighting forms to build the ultimate light system. It's nothing new or about the AP700 that requires T5s any more than any other LED or single point type light.

 

[siggy]

Just watched JF's 700G tank video and noted MH & Fluorescent VHO , still the Standard ? beautiful corals !

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I have six A360WEs on my 125 gallon tank. They all peak in intensity around 50%. I actually bleached some corals at 70% . I really like the functionality and Apex controllability, and I have LPS, softies, acropora, stylophora, and montipora.

 

[hart24601]

those test comparisons are intriguing for sure , so how is it I am bleaching corals if i run higher than 50-60 % agian my 360's are 14" above the water and tank is 20" deep the yumas located on the sand totally bleached running blues and about 20% white in the late afternoon and into the evenings for viewing , now i noticed a challis has lightening on two high ridges and had to be moved into a corner.

Those of you Having success with Kessils out there specifically with SPS some help would be welcomed, I am now concerned with not giving them the needed
lighting.

I have already said what I wanted with Kessils, but I do want to point out that bleaching can be a complex set of interactions. Coral dissipate excess light energy in the form of heat, so flow is a consideration when talking about bleaching. Not saying it is the case with you, but I don't see it talked about all that much and the velocity per second across the coral can make a huge difference. Also there is some research that links low pH (from atmospheric CO2) with increased coral bleaching as well. Considering atmospheric CO2 is 410ppm and a new house with AC running can be over 1000ppm that can be another huge factor.

Bleaching can be a pretty complex process so it's hard to compare one tank to another.

 

[bif24701]

Just watched JF's 700G tank video and noted MH & Fluorescent VHO , still the Standard ? beautiful corals !

Well is MH are so great why would he have to supplement? LOL

 

[siggy]

As sergeant Schultz Says " i know nothing" and i don't, but I am listening and looking so thanks.

A Lot of masters in several fields, will tell you to " Go With What You KNOW "
i think that is JF mantra on the 700 as well or is it sheer size ?

 

[ifarmer]

I am in the market for a sleek looking small foot print light like the kessil too.
Any one here have used the kessils on heavy sps reef with at least 15 months or more?
I would love to hear from those that have used it at least a year or more...
Thanks

 

[Reefcowboy]

Lots of LED users add T5s, lots of T5 users add LED as well as MH. It's been the norm as long as I have been in the hobby to combine the strengths of two lighting forms to build the ultimate light system. It's nothing new or about the AP700 that requires T5s any more than any other LED or single point type light.

I agree with some part, although MH fixtures add T5's and /or Leds to add blues for taste, as MH alone needs no strength from T5 in regards to coral needs. T5 users(myself included) added leds because t5's alone can give a flat and boring look compared to leds, so its nice to get some shimmer, knowing though the T5's will cover all coral needs that could be missing from some leds fixtures.

I think users who add T5's to leds fixtures these days ruining the sharp look of Leds's, do it because they feel something is missing(coverage, colors, growth), and/or they feel corals looked better with T5's in the past. Again, not jabbing at Kessil vs other brand leds, I just think someone buying a sleek looking AP700 doesn't do it thinking "I can't wait to add T5's to this!"

I am in the market for a sleek looking small foot print light like the kessil too.
Any one here have used the kessils on heavy sps reef with at least 15 months or more?
I would love to hear from those that have used it at least a year or more...
Thanks

That is also what I am also looking for. We all know LPS tanks can flourish with leds alone. Sps heavy long-term success is ultimate led test we all expect to see them pass.

 

[GoVols]

I am in the market for a sleek looking small foot print light like the kessil too.
Any one here have used the kessils on heavy sps reef with at least 15 months or more?
I would love to hear from those that have used it at least a year or more...
Thanks

How's this, but he's moved his reef over to the GHL's
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476&page=80