Kh buffer reacting with Nopox ?

[stuart Kemshead]

A friend of mine has a 96ltr (25 gal) tank which he manually doses kh and nopox. On several occasions he has noticed that within 30 min of dosing all the fish are struggling to breathe and he has to do a water change to rectify the situation. I believe the dosage is correct but he has said he has less issues at lower dosage. So is it possible for thes two products to react in any way.

The brand of kh is Ultimate aquacare.

 

[Potatohead]

Does he have a protein skimmer?

 

[stuart Kemshead]

Yes but it is a cheap nano skimmer.
It is not overly effective imo.

 

[Potatohead]

Reason I ask is chances are the nopox is fuelling bacteria that are consuming oxygen in the water. A skimmer will help to replenish the lost O2. I suspect even with a skimmer that is still what is happening because I see no reason nopox would react with KH buffer. Ask him to try reducing his nopox dose each time and dosing more times throughout the day, and also dosing the buffer at a different time to the nopox - Then he will know for sure.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

Does bacteria consume the oxygen that quickly though. The reaction happens within about 30 mins.

He did actually nuke the whole tank earlier in yhe year and kill everything overnight. The only explanation was some type of additive reacting to something.

I have advised him to dose at different times but was curious to know what the issue could be.

 

[Potatohead]

Does bacteria consume the oxygen that quickly though. The reaction happens within about 30 mins.

Absolutely. It will sometimes cloud the water with bacteria as well if it is overdosed.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

The tank also suffers from low ph 7.6 to 7.9.

Kh is around 8 using a hanna checker.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I see no reason nopox would react with KH buffer.

That's correct, there isn't. Direct mixing of them outside the tank can have some reaction, but even that wouldn't cause issues.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

Nitrates are over 10 ppm and tank is only being dosed 2 - 3 ml of nopox per day.

Is the problem low oxygen in the tank or does a tank that small require multiple smaller doses?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

My suggestion would be to put an airstone in the tank (temporarily) to see if it helps while dosing NoPoX, or point a power head at the surface to get better gas exchange. If he does either of these two things and the fish are less stressed, than it was low oxygen. As well it might lift his PH a bit which again would suggest a lack of gas exchange.

You should also mention to your friend that NoPoX and other forms of carbon dosing must be handled carefully as it can wipe your tank if too much is added and the tank does not have adequate gas exchange.

... and carbon dosing will also depress PH for a period of time, so your friend may just be overdoing it on the NoPoX.

Dennis

 

[Potatohead]

Nitrates are over 10 ppm and tank is only being dosed 2 - 3 ml of nopox per day.

Is the problem low oxygen in the tank or does a tank that small require multiple smaller doses?

NoPox is strong. I have 70g of water volume and I dose 2.5 ml per day, spread out over five doses.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

NoPox is strong. I have 70g of water volume and I dose 2.5 ml per day, spread out over five doses.

I find this to be quite surprising. I have dosed Nopox in my 100g tank for 3 -4 years and have never notice any adverse effect on livestock. I do not have a doser so I dose the full amount into the sump in one go, usually in the morning. I normally dose between 3 - 7 ml depending on nitrate level.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

Reason I ask is chances are the nopox is fuelling bacteria that are consuming oxygen in the water. A skimmer will help to replenish the lost O2. I suspect even with a skimmer that is still what is happening because I see no reason nopox would react with KH buffer. Ask him to try reducing his nopox dose each time and dosing more times throughout the day, and also dosing the buffer at a different time to the nopox - Then he will know for sure.

It seems I have forgotten how Nopox works. The skimmer is in all likelihood ineffective at removing the bacteria from the water which in turn creates low o2 levels. Each addition of nopox increases the problem. It is only the weekly water changes keeping everything semi stable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nitrates are over 10 ppm and tank is only being dosed 2 - 3 ml of nopox per day.

Is the problem low oxygen in the tank or does a tank that small require multiple smaller doses?

When dosing organic carbon, I recommend dosing during the daylight hours to avoid reducing O2 during the night when it is already lower.

In general, if you have good aeration and a skimmer, I do not think the O2 concern is a deciding factor in using such products.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

When dosing organic carbon, I recommend dosing during the daylight hours to avoid reducing O2 during the night when it is already lower.

In general, if you have good aeration and a skimmer, I do not think the O2 concern is a deciding factor in using such products.

Can carbon dosing, nopox in this case, be effective on any level without a skimmer or will there always be issues with o2 and a lack of nutrient export.

 

[Potatohead]

Can carbon dosing, nopox in this case, be effective without a skimmer or will there always be issues with o2 and a lack of nutrient export.

It needs to be used with a skimmer, otherwise you're not actually removing anything from the tank and creating a massive bacteria population which will eventually go sideways.

 

[stuart Kemshead]

It needs to be used with a skimmer, otherwise you're not actually removing anything from the tank and creating a massive bacteria population which will eventually go sideways.

Ok. Thx. Was just wondering since i see many nano tanks with relatively low end skimmers. I guess they are employing multiple strategies including regular wc.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can carbon dosing, nopox in this case, be effective on any level without a skimmer or will there always be issues with o2 and a lack of nutrient export.

I think carbon dosing can be useful without a skimmer, but not many people have used it that way.

Long term, it is basically turning inorganic nutrients into organics that may be consumed by filter feeders.