Kole tang appears to have disease/parasite. Testing Copper?

[Anthony Eynard]

I recently added a Kole tang and Neon Dottyback to my QT. This is my first time attempting QT as I rolled the dice in the past and simply got lucky. I'm looking for assistance with addressing two issues:

1. Identifying whats wrong with the Kole Tang. There appears to be a small white mass on his tail fin in addition to a few, smaller spots near the base of the anal fin where it meets the tail fin.

2. I planned on proactively treating these two, but certainly think it's wise now given the physical symptoms I referred to previously. With that being said I'm considering Copper Power and General Cure, however, I don't think a Hanna HR copper is in the budget. Are there any suggestions for alternatives to Hanna that are more affective than say and API or Salifert copper test when using Copper Power?

Below is a link to a short video for assistance with identification, in addition to the two photos I've attached.


**Please note, that some of what you see is debris in the water. The areas that are concerning have been circled in the still images provided.

 

[Big G]

First thing to consider if you haven't already is to do a freshwater dip to check for flukes.

That being said, the large white spot on the tail looks like it may be Lymphocystis. Usually a harmless virus that can come and go depending on the fish's immune system stressors. Great food, pristine water are the standard treatment for this condition.

The small spots need watching and the freshwater dip to confirm or eliminate flukes from the equation.

 

[Anthony Eynard]

Thanks for the insight! As for the tail fin, Lymphocystis does seem possible now that I’ve looked it up.

As for the other spots, I considered flukes a possibility. I have not done a freshwater dip, although I have seen it suggested. Any tips for performing the dip? Can it be done in a hang-on specimen container, or does it need to be larger? What is the recommended duration and can I simply hang a specimen container in the QT and fill with RO (without overfilling into QT of course) for temperature regulation?

Also, should I fresh water dip the Neon Dottyback as well even though it shows no current symptoms?

Thank you so much for the help. This is my first time posting on a forum and I’m grateful to be a part of such a helpful community!

 

[Big G]

Welcome to R2R!

Best to do the FW dip in a dark colored container. It makes viewing the white-ish sesame seed sized fluke bodies really easy.
If one fish in the tank has flukes, the others probably do too.

Here's a video on how to do a FW dip. It looks horrible for the fish but is very handy to confirm or eliminate flukes as a problem. And if there are flukes, the FW dip removes many of them temporarily, which helps the fish if you do have to treat for it. If the fish is covered with flukes, the med treatment can cause them to spasm violently while still attached to the fish which can be shocking to the fish's system. So it's a good thing to do a FW dip.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082

 

[Anthony Eynard]

Welcome to R2R!

Best to do the FW dip in a dark colored container. It makes viewing the white-ish sesame seed sized fluke bodies really easy.
If one fish in the tank has flukes, the others probably do too.

Here's a video on how to do a FW dip. It looks horrible for the fish but is very handy to confirm or eliminate flukes as a problem. And if there are flukes, the FW dip removes many of them temporarily, which helps the fish if you do have to treat for it. If the fish is covered with flukes, the med treatment can cause them to spasm violently while still attached to the fish which can be shocking to the fish's system. So it's a good thing to do a FW dip.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082

Thanks for the info and resource!

When treating, are there any recommendations for testing copper that might be cheaper than the Hanna Checker, but better than the API? I’ve read that not all test kits work for Copper Power, and that’s what I plan on using, along with General cure.

 

[Big G]

Thanks for the info and resource!

When treating, are there any recommendations for testing copper that might be cheaper than the Hanna Checker, but better than the API? I’ve read that not all test kits work for Copper Power, and that’s what I plan on using, along with General cure.

Generic test kits work OK but not as reliable and reassuring as the Hanna. That being said, the ones from Red Sea, Salifert are much better than the horrible API kits.

But the good news is Copper Power has been shown to be very reliable in dosing strength. Which means if you actually measure your QT gallon capacity (tanks are notoriously not actually the stated size. So measure your QT and mark on the glass with a permanent marker the gallon or 5 gallon increments).
So with Copper Power if you use a very accurate dosing/measuring syringe, you will be very close to the desired copper strength of 1.75-2.00 ppm without overdosing or under dosing.

Highly recommend the Hanna HL Copper Checker. Low stress on both you and the fish

 

[Anthony Eynard]

Generic test kits work OK but not as reliable and reassuring as the Hanna. That being said, the ones from Red Sea, Salifert are much better than the horrible API kits.

But the good news is Copper Power has been shown to be very reliable in dosing strength. Which means if you actually measure your QT gallon capacity (tanks are notoriously not actually the stated size. So measure your QT and mark on the glass with a permanent marker the gallon or 5 gallon increments).
So with Copper Power if you use a very accurate dosing/measuring syringe, you will be very close to the desired copper strength of 1.75-2.00 ppm without overdosing or under dosing.

Highly recommend the Hanna HL Copper Checker. Low stress on both you and the fish

Good to know. I’m assuming I’d need to ramp up to that dosage to reduce the stress on the fish. I think that’s where a test kit would be beneficial.

 

[Big G]

Good to know. I’m assuming I’d need to ramp up to that dosage to reduce the stress on the fish. I think that’s where a test kit would be beneficial.

That's where Copper Power is very handy. Calculate out how much Copper Power you need for your size tank and then break down the dosage into small AM & PM doses over 3-5 days, if the fish is not infected with velvet. For velvet need to ramp up within 24 hours.

 

[rkpetersen]

Generic test kits work OK but not as reliable and reassuring as the Hanna. That being said, the ones from Red Sea, Salifert are much better than the horrible API kits.

But the good news is Copper Power has been shown to be very reliable in dosing strength. Which means if you actually measure your QT gallon capacity (tanks are notoriously not actually the stated size. So measure your QT and mark on the glass with a permanent marker the gallon or 5 gallon increments).
So with Copper Power if you use a very accurate dosing/measuring syringe, you will be very close to the desired copper strength of 1.75-2.00 ppm without overdosing or under dosing.

Highly recommend the Hanna HL Copper Checker. Low stress on both you and the fish

You can also calculate your actual tank volume from measurements.
Just measure the 3 water dimensions in inches (not including glass thickness), and plug the numbers into this equation:

Tank water volume (gal) = L x W x H (in) / 231.

Then subtract estimated volume of heater, powerhead, etc.


Nothing else available that's comparable to the Hanna checker for accuracy.

 

[Sailfinguy21]

Copper isnt s9me cure all magical stuff. Ive had fish die from copper who never got ich or velvet.. opper also can bring on lymphocystis.. it crushes a fishes immune system.

I lost 6 fish from lyphocystis after copper.. all chrimis and damsels.. who NEVER get ich.. they died of secondary infections from the virus.

My yellow tang was RIDDled in lymphocystis looked lile ich too but trust me it wasnt. It made huge craters in his skin when it di. Fall off in a few weeks time and i had to do major antibiotics to save him fr9m secondary infection.

This is why i do hyposalinity. Copper just messed things up. Here is what lympjocystis did to my yellow tang. This started after copper.. note again this isnt ich.. its cysts from the virus looks similar bur it never fell off just stayed on the fish for nearly a month... this pic isnt even the worst.. after the cysts did fall off it left huge craters in the fish body like a big zit on your face would.


I highely recomend you dont use copper unless you have velvet. Do hyposalinity.. i jad a kole tang. They can handle hypo just fine..and at 1.007to 1.009 itll knock off more flukes.. kill black ich. And kill normal ich

 

[Anthony Eynard]

Copper isnt s9me cure all magical stuff. Ive had fish die from copper who never got ich or velvet.. opper also can bring on lymphocystis.. it crushes a fishes immune system.

I lost 6 fish from lyphocystis after copper.. all chrimis and damsels.. who NEVER get ich.. they died of secondary infections from the virus.

My yellow tang was RIDDled in lymphocystis looked lile ich too but trust me it wasnt. It made huge craters in his skin when it di. Fall off in a few weeks time and i had to do major antibiotics to save him fr9m secondary infection.

This is why i do hyposalinity. Copper just messed things up. Here is what lympjocystis did to my yellow tang. This started after copper.. note again this isnt ich.. its cysts from the virus looks similar bur it never fell off just stayed on the fish for nearly a month... this pic isnt even the worst.. after the cysts did fall off it left huge craters in the fish body like a big zit on your face would

Thanks for the insight! Just to clarify, when you say hyposalinity, are you referring to a fresh water dip, or maintaining lower salinity levels in the QT tank consistently?

I’ve seen a lot of reference to fresh water dips, but not much about maintaining hyposalinity in QT. Any more info to share about the process?

 

[Sailfinguy21]

I mean drop the tank down to 1.009 and keep it there for 3 to 4 weeks min

 

[Anthony Eynard]

I mean drop the tank down to 1.009 and keep it there for 3 to 4 weeks min

If I’m currently at 1.026 in my 10g QT. How would you recommend me dropping to 1.oo9? I’m asssuming I should do it gradually. Would I remove.. say 1 cup of QT water and replace with 1 cup RO water and repeats this process daily?

Thanks again! This information is extremely helpful for successful QT!