Lanthanum Chloride - Did I Do Something Wrong?

[ReefGeezer]

So... I started dosing Lanthanum Chloride... well tried to start dosing it anyway. I mixed a solution of ~1 gallon of RODI with 3ml of Seakleer Lanthanum Chloride. I started dosing it into my skimmer (through the neck) at less than 1ml/ per minute. All was well until about 24 hours later. Then I noticed that the respiration rates of my Anthias and a Wrasse were much more rapid and labored than normal. Less than a quart of the solution had been administered. I turned off the dosing pump and did a 25% water change. All seems well now.

Did I do something incorrectly... dose too much...etc.? Does anyone have any ideas? Other parameters are normal. Phosphate was about .13ppm when I started. I'd still like the option to use this method, but now I'm kind of spooked!

 

[Mikedawg]

So... I started dosing Lanthanum Chloride... well tried to start dosing it anyway. I mixed a solution of ~1 gallon of RODI with 3ml of Seakleer Lanthanum Chloride. I started dosing it into my skimmer (through the neck) at less than 1ml/ per minute. All was well until about 24 hours later. Then I noticed that the respiration rates of my Anthias and a Wrasse were much more rapid and labored than normal. Less than a quart of the solution had been administered. I turned off the dosing pump and did a 25% water change. All seems well now.

Did I do something incorrectly... dose too much...etc.? Does anyone have any ideas? Other parameters are normal. Phosphate was about .13ppm when I started. I'd still like the option to use this method, but now I'm kind of spooked!

Question whether fishes' reaction was directly due to dosing LC. That seems like a well diluted mix and I understand that LC quickly binds with phosphate to form a floculant which is removed by the skimmer generally within a few hours. If you go to Meleev's Reef website/YouTube you'll see him dosing directly from bottle and claims of no problems having used this method over several year's time.

I've used LC with both anthias and fairy wrasses in my tank and haven't noticed any issues, but always the first time.

Good luck figuring this out.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Question whether fishes' reaction was directly due to dosing LC. That seems like a well diluted mix and I understand that LC quickly binds with phosphate to form a floculant which is removed by the skimmer generally within a few hours. If you go to Meleev's Reef website/YouTube you'll see him dosing directly from bottle and claims of no problems having used this method over several year's time.

I've used LC with both anthias and fairy wrasses in my tank and haven't noticed any issues, but always the first time.

Good luck figuring this out.

Thank you. I was pretty sure my process was ok but something just didn't seem right. I agree it may be a correlation vs. causation issue but I just wanted to see if anyone else had seen this kind of effect. I'll probably try again unless I others have seen issues.

 

[Tamberav]

Someone a few months ago lost their tangs when dosing LC. I believe due to the particulate… they dosed directly into the sump though.

I think some use fine micron socks?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lanthanum dosing does have a reported history of fish issues. I'm not sure why some folks see it and many do not.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Lanthanum dosing does have a reported history of fish issues. I'm not sure why some folks see it and many do not.

Cool. I'll try again. I was probably just being overly cautious.

 

[Sean Clark]

I have used the same seaklear brand LC for a long time. I do not dilute it, I just dose it directly into the sump. I calculated that 9 drops of Seaklear will lower phosphates by .25ppm in 30 gallons. This is very strong stuff. I used an old API test kit bottle filled with LC for occasional adjustments. I have never had any negative effects but some people do claim to have issues.

Your solution of 3ml to 1 gallon is very dilute and should not be causing any problems. 1 gallon is 4546.09ml or 90,921.8 drops. 3ml is 60 drops. Even assuming that the Seaklear is 100% LC your solution is only 0.0006599077448972634% LC if my math is correct.
Given that Seaklear is a liquid and not a dry product we know that it is not 100% LC, so your solution is even weaker than this.

If anything, this is too weak to be practical and should be made stronger. There are pre mixed products out there that you can use if you you are unsure of mixing your own.

The water will get white/cloudy when using LC, but it will clear and you can measure your water and see your results.

 

[Mikedawg]

Thank you. I was pretty sure my process was ok but something just didn't seem right. I agree it may be a correlation vs. causation issue but I just wanted to see if anyone else had seen this kind of effect. I'll probably try again unless I others have seen issues.

This might be worth a read: https://beananimal.com/articles/lan...de,skills to determine if this idea has merit.

 

[Pistondog]

Run it into the overflow and through 5 micron sox, and make sure your skimmer is running efficiently.
If you see cloudy water, that is likely the precipitate which has been known to cause the symptoms you describe.
Even if the water was not cloudy, too much too fast without removing the precipitate.

 

[Jposch]

Run it into the overflow and through 5 micron sox, and make sure your skimmer is running efficiently.
If you see cloudy water, that is likely the precipitate which has been known to cause the symptoms you describe.
Even if the water was not cloudy, too much too fast without removing the precipitate.

Exactly this! Use your overflow and drain pipe as a "lanthanum reactor."

The reaction is rapid, but not instant.

With 5 micron socks, the water shpuld hardly be cloudy when applied in this manner. The socks will clog pretty quickly. If ypu dose directly into ypur skimmer or sock, the lanthanum chloride, which is a far smaller molecule will just pass right through the sock or skimmer before it "finds" enough phosphate to bind with and form the insoluble LaPo4, which typically is greater than 1 micron, and a 5 micron sock is easier to find, clean and much cheaper than a 1 micron.
Using the overflow ensures a longer reaction time before encountering the export method.
Why anyone thinks a 100 or even 200 micron sock is acceptable is beyond me. I just knocked down 5.5ppm in less than 2 hours with almost no clouding. In fact, the 5 micron sock cleared the water up more than it already was beforehand.
Low dissolved po4 means the LaCl will travel further before reacting, and thus is riskier. So, definitely slow down dosing as the level decreases.