Large-ish tank planning

[phillygeeks]

So we are all settled into our new place and the baby is several months old and the new tank planning fever is taking effect.

I would like a reef savvy tank and have an alternative plan of a red Sea reefer 750xxl.

A couple questions...is there a great benefit in terms of fish availability in going from 160 gallons to 205?

I am planning for a tank size of 72x30x22 with Euro bracing and phantom bottom and plan to go bare bottom with the tank and use power heads for the bulk of the flow. What would you recommend in terms of number of overflows and returns? I am wondering if one of each would be sufficient. I am very flexible with my budget but I don't want any extra stuff that is not necessary that has the potential for malfunction.

 

[JoshH]

I'd say if you can swing it, always good to spring for the larger tank. As for overflows and returns it's really up to you. One return and one overflow will be more than enough provided they are the appropriate size. If you are going with the reef savvy, the ghost overflow is more than enough and quite large to provide adequate surface skimming.

 

[scott11106]

agreed, always go as large as you can as the cost is minimal to maintain but you will want the added volume. I have the ghost overflow on my 300g and is more than enough and works great.

 

[phillygeeks]

Thanks for the input. I will go with the larger tank. I will look into the Waterbox pro line and the Elos diamond line in addition to the Reef Savvy. I need to look into reliability and build quality for Waterbox when compared to the others.

 

[JoshH]

Thanks for the input. I will go with the larger tank. I will look into the Waterbox pro line and the Elos diamond line in addition to the Reef Savvy. I need to look into reliability and build quality for Waterbox when compared to the others.

I'm honestly not sure if you can even compare the three. Reef Savvy and Elos are really in a league of there own. Waterbox are pretty solid tanks and there is certainly nothing wrong with them but they just aren't a Reef Savvy/Elos.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Adding ,,, congrats on house and baby.

And if you ever find yourself near geno’s or pat’s I trade frags for cheesesteak.

 

[phillygeeks]

I'm honestly not sure if you can even compare the three. Reef Savvy and Elos are really in a league of there own. Waterbox are pretty solid tanks and there is certainly nothing wrong with them but they just aren't a Reef Savvy/Elos.

Yeah, that's what I figure. Even though I can budget the others, it will be hard to pay nearly twice the amount as long as the Waterbox aquariums are at least reliable. That being said I feel like I will probably end up with the Reef Savvy of Elos

 

[phillygeeks]

Adding ,,, congrats on house and baby.

And if you ever find yourself near geno’s or pat’s I trade frags for cheesesteak.

Hahaha. I wish I could! I am seeing I need to update my profile now that I am in Montana. We really do miss the Philly food scene

 

[JoshH]

Yeah, that's what I figure. Even though I can budget the others, it will be hard to pay nearly twice the amount as long as the Waterbox aquariums are at least reliable. That being said I feel like I will probably end up with the Reef Savvy of Elos

Look at it this way, going with, say Reef Savvy. You get EXACTLY what you want. Right down to the exact spot you would like the return/returns. The exact width, length, Euro bracing, rimless, whatever suits your fancy. If this is going to be your tank long term, there's nothing better than custom

I went with a custom tank from Miracles Aquaruims, quite a bit cheaper than Reef Savvy and I love mine so far (Though it does currently sit dry here in the living room). Crystal Dynamic is another great quality tank builder worth looking into as well.

 

[phillygeeks]

Look at it this way, going with, say Reef Savvy. You get EXACTLY what you want. Right down to the exact spot you would like the return/returns. The exact width, length, Euro bracing, rimless, whatever suits your fancy. If this is going to be your tank long term, there's nothing better than custom

I went with a custom tank from Miracles Aquaruims, slightly cheaper than Reef Savvy and I love mine so far (Though it does currently sit dry here in the living room). Crystal Dynamic is another great quality tank builder worth looking into as well.

Thanks! Those look like some good recs. I will have to look into those.

 

[phillygeeks]

Looks like it's down to Reef Savvy and Tankme USA. I am still waiting on one of the quotes. Had an electrician over today to give an estimate on running 2 - 20 amp circuits (If i tear out some ceiling to run one, I might as well have them run some redundancy).

 

[JoshH]

Looks like it's down to Reef Savvy and Tankme USA. I am still waiting on one of the quotes. Had an electrician over today to give an estimate on running 2 - 20 amp circuits (If i tear out some ceiling to run one, I might as well have them run some redundancy).

Both excellent options and you'll be happy with either! I'm guessing you're waiting on reef savvy??

 

[phillygeeks]

Both excellent options and you'll be happy with either! I'm guessing you're waiting on reef savvy??

Yes, I am! To be fair, they were the first to get back to me on an actual quote on what I submitted. Now I just need a response on my follow up question.

 

[JoshH]

Yes, I am! To be fair, they were the first to get back to me on an actual quote on what I submitted. Now I just need a response on my follow up question.

That's quite surprising, they were the longest to respond with everything by a landslide when I was getting quotes and asking questions. But it is understandable given how busy they are. Even with Quotes in this hobby you need patience

 

[phillygeeks]

So I ran into a bit of a major roadblock in my planning. If you look at the photo I planned placing the reef tank in the area with the blue rectangle. The yellow interrupted line would represent pvc pipes from the DT to the fish room (green outlined area) which would run under a staircase. In addition I have plans to have an electrician wire a new 20 amp circuit at the wall behind the DT and one new 20 amp circuit at the wall in the fish room. I punched a hole in the sheet rock today to see what under the staircase looked like and then I found my major problem...concrete. I found the plans to my house and reviewed them (I was not the first owner) and see the room that I wanted to call the fish room is labeled "vault" on the home plans and if I am reading this correctly has a 12 inch thick slab of concrete between where I wanted to place the DT and the fish room. My plan was for a fish room with a frag tank, sizeable sump, mixing stations and a QT. Now I am seeing I cannot plumb my DT to the sump and frag tank and then would need to have the water station elsewhere.

 

[JoshH]

So I ran into a bit of a major roadblock in my planning. If you look at the photo I planned placing the reef tank in the area with the blue rectangle. The yellow interrupted line would represent pvc pipes from the DT to the fish room (green outlined area) which would run under a staircase. In addition I have plans to have an electrician wire a new 20 amp circuit at the wall behind the DT and one new 20 amp circuit at the wall in the fish room. I punched a hole in the sheet rock today to see what under the staircase looked like and then I found my major problem...concrete. I found the plans to my house and reviewed them (I was not the first owner) and see the room that I wanted to call the fish room is labeled "vault" on the home plans and if I am reading this correctly has a 12 inch thick slab of concrete between where I wanted to place the DT and the fish room. My plan was for a fish room with a frag tank, sizeable sump, mixing stations and a QT. Now I am seeing I cannot plumb my DT to the sump and frag tank and then would need to have the water station elsewhere.

A concrete wall is still a wall, just need a stronger drill bit and a lot more patience lol. I've drilled concrete many, many times, though the rental and drill bit might be a little on the crazy side of expensive...

Is is a structural wall? You could cut then jack hammer it out as well. It would be nasty and a ton of work but probably a fair bit cheaper than the drilling option.

Oh and judging by the plans the concrete is less than 12" thick. The 12" is including the interior framing and wall which will be 4" give or take.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

A concrete wall is still a wall, just need a stronger drill bit and a lot more patience lol. I've drilled concrete many times, though the rental and drill bit might be a little on the crazy side of expensive...

Is is a structural wall? You could cut then jack hammer it out as well. It would be nasty and a ton of work but probably a fair bit cheaper than the drilling option.

Agreed

The only thing I would think is if it concrete, chances are it was poured concrete into a form with rebar. No way I would make a go of that. Maybe get lucky and it’s cement block and cement.

I would lean toward maybe getting a mason, or maybe a cement saw to try and keep it a little cleaner. But nothing wrong with the old sledge hammer and drill.

Or

 

[JoshH]

Agreed

The only thing I would think is if it concrete, chances are it was poured concrete into a form with rebar. No way I would make a go of that. Maybe get lucky and it’s cement block and cement.

I would lean toward maybe getting a mason, or maybe a cement saw to try and keep it a little cleaner. But nothing wrong with the old sledge hammer and drill.

Or

I was thinking core drilling. Which is why I lended it to being the most expensive option. You can rent the drills but typically with rentals you have to buy the bits yourself which can be upwards of hundreds of dollars each depending on the size. The drill bits will chew through rebar as well but you need to go slowly.

The cheaper solution is definately the saw cut and jack hammer option. However it will be difficult assuming the cuts and work area is close to the ceiling and afterwards you will have to cut the rebar out on its own. Typically doing the cut and hammer you would use a standard grinder with a diamond cutting disk to grind in the 1 1/2" all the away around and then start chipping away with an electric hammer drill, Mikita makes a great one for this.

 

[phillygeeks]

I appreciate the input. I don't have the expertise to determine if this is a structural wall or if it's reinforced concrete and the implications of drilling or cutting through it. The "vault" room does extend under my front porch and so this inner wall that I would potentially drill through is potentially directly supporting the anterior face of the home. I asked a colleague who built prospect homes to come by this weekend and give some input. I will probably ask a mason to come by, as well.

The other issue I had was I wanted to install a utility sink in the room. Finding a way to vent and drain this sink seems problematic unless I want to drill much more concrete. Ultimately, I can take water from sprinkler pipes I have in the room for the mixing station and I would just have to bite the bullet and clean stuff in another room.

 

[JoshH]

I appreciate the input. I don't have the expertise to determine if this is a structural wall or if it's reinforced concrete and the implications of drilling or cutting through it. The "vault" room does extend under my front porch and so this inner wall that I would potentially drill through is potentially directly supporting the anterior face of the home. I asked a colleague who built prospect homes to come by this weekend and give some input. I will probably ask a mason to come by, as well.

The other issue I had was I wanted to install a utility sink in the room. Finding a way to vent and drain this sink seems problematic unless I want to drill much more concrete. Ultimately, I can take water from sprinkler pipes I have in the room for the mixing station and I would just have to bite the bullet and clean stuff in another room.

Given your description its definitely structural. You can still use either option but the cut and hammer method might require a steel frame to reinforce the cavity you create to support the structure above. As for the utility sink you have a couple options. Obviously you can drill again for the vent and jack hammer up for floor for the drain but then again you are creeping into crazy expensive land unless you're pretty handy yourself. You can use the same tools as the cut and hammer method if you wish for this but might take longer unless you step up to a larger/actual jackhammer. You could do a remote sump unit and plumb it up to the ceiling and over to your regular drain. These are typically used for bathrooms installed in basements to save the digging up the floor method. The only downside to this is the pumps they use aren't really meant for saltwater and you might find yourself needing to replace them more frequently than otherwise. How frequent I'm not really sure but something to consider. From my knowledge they do not require an external vent but I'm not 100% sure on that.