Large white spot diagnosis and treatment assistance please

[SaltyShrimpy]

This is a chocolate mimic tang, it spent 3 months in copper and was treated with prazipro before I picked it up. It's been in my tank for 3 days now. Apologies for the poor photos and videos, I'll try and get clearer ones but I just have my cell phone camera.

Other fish don't have any spots. Correction, the maroon clownfish also seems to have the same issue, although it's much harder to see given it's white coloring over most of it's body. Looking closely the clown seems to be much worse off.

Although these seem more like blotches to me than spots. I noticed one or two blotches near the tail 2 days ago but I thought they may just be scars or more normal marks. They've gotten considerably worse.

I watched some videos and looked at a lot of photos and they seem like way larger marks than either velvet or ich. And I understand if it was velvet the tang would probably be dead already, and spreading to other fish. I believe ich would be more uniform all over the fish, not clustered towards the tail. And the spots would be smaller and round, instead of larger and randomly shaped.

It looks kinda similar to the naso tangs in this thread:

Naso Tang White Splotches

It appears something happened to this Blonde Naso during shipment. He eats great and acts normal... just has these white splotches on the under belly portion of his body... there are currently no meds in the QT. They aren't raised so I wouldn't suspect parasite. His breathing is very normal...

www.reef2reef.com

The fish is not eating voraciously, which I've chalked up to being new in the tank, but I do see him nibbling when I feed.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is a chocolate mimic tang, it spent 3 months in copper and was treated with prazipro before I picked it up. It's been in my tank for 3 days now. Apologies for the poor photos and videos, I'll try and get clearer ones but I just have my cell phone camera.

Other fish don't have any spots. Correction, the maroon clownfish also seems to have the same issue, although it's much harder to see given it's white coloring over most of it's body. Looking closely the clown seems to be much worse off.

Although these seem more like blotches to me than spots. I noticed one or two blotches near the tail 2 days ago but I thought they may just be scars or more normal marks. They've gotten considerably worse.

I watched some videos and looked at a lot of photos and they seem like way larger marks than either velvet or ich. And I understand if it was velvet the tang would probably be dead already, and spreading to other fish. I believe ich would be more uniform all over the fish, not clustered towards the tail. And the spots would be smaller and round, instead of larger and randomly shaped.

It looks kinda similar to the naso tangs in this thread:

Naso Tang White Splotches

It appears something happened to this Blonde Naso during shipment. He eats great and acts normal... just has these white splotches on the under belly portion of his body... there are currently no meds in the QT. They aren't raised so I wouldn't suspect parasite. His breathing is very normal...

www.reef2reef.com

The fish is not eating voraciously, which I've chalked up to being new in the tank, but I do see him nibbling when I feed.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hard to see clown under dark lights and need white light intensity
Tang has mucus cones with ich possibly mixed in and best recourse is quarantining and treating with coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 for a full 30 days monitored with a reliable test kit such as Hanna brand
Maintain good water quality skin irritation may have played a role

 

[nereefpat]

When I see clowns, I always have to rule out Brook.

#fishmedic

 

[Ben.QLD2]

That clown has brooklynella for sure. Presumably the tang does also but there symptoms can be more non-specific. I would treat all tank occupants with formalin and then you have to leave fallow for about 3 months.

It doesn't kill as fast as velvet but it will reach a tipping point and overwhelm the fish. Your clown is almost there now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I too seeing possible brook why I asked for clearer pictures under bright lights
It’s hard to assess a white fish under dark light hues

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

I too seeing possible brook why I asked for clearer pictures under bright lights
It’s hard to assess a white fish under dark light hues

Those photos were taken under full spectrum white. My phone camera just sucks evidently. But I did just learn that my phone has a pro mode that does better. Right now both fishes are at my LFS in a qt tank, we are treating with copper and trying to track down some formalin.

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

That clown has brooklynella for sure. Presumably the tang does also but there symptoms can be more non-specific. I would treat all tank occupants with formalin and then you have to leave fallow for about 3 months.

It doesn't kill as fast as velvet but it will reach a tipping point and overwhelm the fish. Your clown is almost there now.

Is formalin effective against crypto ich as well as brook? Seeing mixed answers when I google it. I have also tried to find photo examples of tangs with brook to see if it matches what's going on with the tang. Not finding much, everything focuses on clownfish.

I took both fish to my LFS who offered to put them in a qt tank. Their available tank already has copper in it, so they're being treated with copper. Should we still be looking to do formalin dips? It looks like copper alone isn't very effective against brook.

I have another clown in my tank which so far isn't showing symptoms, but almost certainly also has brook. I also have a few damsels, two mollys, a coral shrimp, clean up crew and two nems. No coral. What do I need to do to treat my tank itself? Is removing the clownfish going to be enough or do I need to remove all fish? What about the inverts and nems?

 

[Ben.QLD2]

Copper is useless for brooklynella. Formalin is required. Freshwater dips may provide some respite but proper treatment will be needed.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is formalin effective against crypto ich as well as brook? Seeing mixed answers when I google it. I have also tried to find photo examples of tangs with brook to see if it matches what's going on with the tang. Not finding much, everything focuses on clownfish.

I took both fish to my LFS who offered to put them in a qt tank. Their available tank already has copper in it, so they're being treated with copper. Should we still be looking to do formalin dips? It looks like copper alone isn't very effective against brook.

I have another clown in my tank which so far isn't showing symptoms, but almost certainly also has brook. I also have a few damsels, two mollys, a coral shrimp, clean up crew and two nems. No coral. What do I need to do to treat my tank itself? Is removing the clownfish going to be enough or do I need to remove all fish? What about the inverts and nems?

If no formalin which is hard to find, general cure good and ruby rally pro

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

Copper is useless for brooklynella. Formalin is required. Freshwater dips may provide some respite but proper treatment will be needed.

Is it possible to treat with copper and formalin at the same time? Considering they are in copper now?

And should the qt tank be dosed with formalin or should 30-60 minute dips be used?

I'm seeing a LOT of conflicting info when I try and google these answers.

 

[Ben.QLD2]

Don't mix copper and formalin. They also don't look like they need copper, so no benefit for them at the moment with copper.

I would do a formalin dip and then treat entire QT too. Use an established treatment protocol, like on the Humblefish page etc.

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

So just to be absolutely sure, BOTH fish have brooklynella, and neither has crypto? So the only thing I should be treating for is brook?

 

[Ben.QLD2]

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis (updated 6-9-2023) What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen with clownfish, but it can afflict other fish (usually in the gills) as well. When a clownfish has Brook, the skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off. Which is actually excess white mucous coming...

humble.fish

After I had another read of this it actually says to just dip, but personally I would add a therapeutic dose of formalin to the QT too, as dipping can sometimes be too brief to remove all parasites. Dipping can also sometimes be too stressful for advanced infections, like yours are becoming.

 

[Ben.QLD2]

Clown is definitely brooklynella, tang very likely. You said it's had 3 months in copper already too.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is it possible to treat with copper and formalin at the same time? Considering they are in copper now?

And should the qt tank be dosed with formalin or should 30-60 minute dips be used?

I'm seeing a LOT of conflicting info when I try and google these answers.

No and copper is far from a cure for this.
I mentioned ruby rally - a 60 minute bath is sufficient. General cure contains a small amount of formalin and you will likely fond powdered form which has to be diluted precisely

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is formalin effective against crypto ich as well as brook? Seeing mixed answers when I google it. I have also tried to find photo examples of tangs with brook to see if it matches what's going on with the tang. Not finding much, everything focuses on clownfish.

I took both fish to my LFS who offered to put them in a qt tank. Their available tank already has copper in it, so they're being treated with copper. Should we still be looking to do formalin dips? It looks like copper alone isn't very effective against brook.

I have another clown in my tank which so far isn't showing symptoms, but almost certainly also has brook. I also have a few damsels, two mollys, a coral shrimp, clean up crew and two nems. No coral. What do I need to do to treat my tank itself? Is removing the clownfish going to be enough or do I need to remove all fish? What about the inverts and nems?

The tang could just have "mucus plugs" which are a generalized stress reaction to *something*, sometimes serious, but not always. The clownfish looks more like Brooklynella to me, and those do not get mucus plugs like tangs do.

Formalin does not work well for ich - Brooklynella has direct development, if you kill it on the fish with formalin, the fish often recover. With ich, the trophonts are not easily killed by formalin, and then, if they are, the tomonts in the tank will later on, release theronts that can continue the infection.

Jay

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

The tang could just have "mucus plugs" which are a generalized stress reaction to *something*, sometimes serious, but not always. The clownfish looks more like Brooklynella to me, and those do not get mucus plugs like tangs do.

Formalin does not work well for ich - Brooklynella has direct development, if you kill it on the fish with formalin, the fish often recover. With ich, the trophonts are not easily killed by formalin, and then, if they are, the tomonts in the tank will later on, release theronts that can continue the infection.

Jay

Thanks, to you and everyone else who commented. I've found some Kordon with formalin locally, i'm picking it up after work and I'm going to treat with it. I definitely agree the clown has brooklynella, and given the tank was proactively qt'd with copper and prazipro I think it's unlikely it has ich. So brooklynella or some other combination of factors not playing nicely together as you've stated.

 

[SaltyShrimpy]

Just providing an update, all 3 affected fish (tang and two clowns) are still alive this morning. The clowns look better in terms of their scales and fins but their behavior is not great, they are listless, laying on the bottom of the tank at times. The tang seems to be doing quite well.

I have them in a 40 breeder that's about half full. Two airstones running. I think the clown's behavior is not due to lack of oxygen, it's probably just the harshness of the formalin treatment.