Lighting Advice Please For Frag Tanks

Rich · Jul 1, 2007

Hi Folks

A little advice please if you would be so kind.
Now, by my own admission, i have neglected my frag system a little over the past few months. My intention was to keep some main colonies in my frag system, fragging them as and when they had grown large and strong enough to do so.
Initially i kept my colonies in my main display tank. it is lit by a 250W MH 20k with 96W of actinics.
The zoas were kept at various depths but i had good growth and colouration.

So, i moved my main colonies into my frag system in the garage. I posted full details but cannot find the "lets see your prop tanks" thread despite using the search function ?

These are only shallow tanks with the zoas growing at 4 inches depth. They are presently lit with 3 x 35W of T5 tubes.

Inititially, i tried 2 x 35W tubes compromising of one actinic and one 14k T5. Total 70W. Trouble was that the frags were growing with long "stalks" and generally didnt look very healthy. Since adding a third tube, although the stalks have now reduced in size, i have noticed that the colours have bleached from the zoas. Often, half of a colony will be closed up with one or two heads peeking open. I have carried out water tests and all appears fine. This leads me to think that it can only be a problem with the lighting.
So, please tell me, what would you do guys if these were your zoas ?

I look forward to hearing from you guys over the pond !

Rich UK

Rich · Jul 3, 2007

Anyone ?

. Do you guys not use shallow frag tanks then ?

Thanks any input is greatly appreciated

Rich

revhtree · Jul 3, 2007

I would say it is th elight as well. I had some frags close up for nearly 4 months straight and when I added the proper lighting they opened back up and are now doing great.

I could be wrong, but I think you need more light.

What are the dimensions of the tank and the gallons?

Rich · Jul 3, 2007

Cheers for the reply Rev you are a gent

You can see my prop system here towards the bottom of the page. Its all singing all dancing. Im just unsure about the tube types and wattages etc. All my zoas are very pale in colour to what they were in my main tank. Ive actually moved the main colonies back to my display for now to colour up again.
Tank dimensions are 5ft x 1ft x 6 inches deep.

http://club-zoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3733&page=2

Ive increased the flow this evening. Any input you can give me as to why you might think i have tiny shrunken dull polyps would be greatly appreciated. All critisism of a constructive nature most welcomed.

Rich

revhtree · Jul 3, 2007

Wow those are sweet tanks! It sure looks like enough light....hmmm

Are these tied into an existing system?

Rich · Jul 3, 2007

cheers Rev. The system is exactly as you see it. The three prop tanks and the sump underneath. Im wonderign whether i had too much light. As the water depth is only 4" im wondering whether i have overdone it. For now im just using two actinics and im going to se if they improve. As the picture was shown i was using all four tubes. I found that of say 10 polyps 7 would be closed or partially open. I reduced to three tubes consisting of one 14k and two actinic ( 35W each total 105 watts ) and still little improvement. I have tested for nitrates and the reading is as clse to zero as can be read. i have a Deltec APF600 running 24/7, an autofeeder with a few damsels for bioload RO water on auto top up, cheato and calurpa in my sump. Im doing everything as it should be yet im not happy with my zoas.

Do you have any thoughts Rev ? Your zoas always look perfect ! Wheres the Envy Emoticon ?

Thanks bud

Rich

revhtree · Jul 3, 2007

Thanks bud, but we all go through these times i think. Well if your zoas are loosing color it very well could be from high light bleaching them. I have found that if you have too little light, they loose color and stretch. To much light and they loose color by being bleached.

If a colony it stressed out to the point of keeping closed, it may take sometime for them to reopen even if conditions are right.

revhtree · Jul 3, 2007

Whats you water temp?

Rich · Jul 3, 2007

26c i even have air conditioning in there to keep the blighters happy !

My Frag tanks are the equivalent of a 5 * Hotel but they arent paying me back !

Rich

follow3 · Jul 3, 2007

Hey Rich,

Those are awesome tanks!!!
I hope to build a similar setup in the future.

Could you possibly have any pests?
I had the same problem with my big colonies a few months ago and it turned out to be Nudis and Flat worms.

I never noticed them until someone told me to look for them. I found out the best way to find them is to wait till the lights have been off for an hour or two then go out with a flash light and inspect the colonies. The Nudis and lots of other pests are more active in the dark.

If you get a chance, could you post a couple of pics showing your plumbing closer?

Thanks,
Good Luck,
Steve

Rich · Jul 4, 2007

Hi Steve

Thanks for your input. i have seen a few Nudis here and there and i remove them as i see them. ive not seen any for a while though and of say 100 frags i might only have two nudis. They are a pain for sure though. just when you think its not feasible for any adults to be alive ( dipped every colony) another one appears after several weeks! ?
Im certain that these arent the problem though. There just arent enough to cause such a large scale issue IMHO. I think its lighting - i will get to the bottom of it !

Thanks for the compliment. What did you want to know in particular about the plumbing ? Just yell and i will attempt to assist

Rich

follow3 · Jul 4, 2007

Hey Rich,

Anything you could tell me about the plumbing setup would be great. The more detail the better.

As far as lighting goes, I also use T-5's. I have good success with Zoas and Palys.

My tank is 36" wide X 16" front to back X 16" deep.

I use 4 39 watt bulbs- front to back they are:
ATI- Blue plus
ATI- Aquablue special
ATI- Blue plus
ATI- Aquablue special

I have frag racks at different depths so I can move the frags if I feel they need more or less light. I also had problems at first, because I was using cheap bulbs. Once I got these good quality bulbs it made a world of difference.

Hope this helps.

Rich · Jul 5, 2007

Hmmm thanks for that Steve

. My tubes are 35W i fear that these may be the problem. I *think* that there is more to it than just the 4 watts per tube i am down.

OK

My system compromises of a sump that contains all the filtration. The sump houses an Ehiem pump that pumps to the top 5ft frag tank. the flow goes from right to left in the top tank. Each frag tank also contains powerhead pumps for flow within prop. I have wired these on a timer so that one bank will run for 5 minutes and then switch off. A second bank will then start up to create a random "chaotic" flow. Flow within the prop tanks is presently under scrutiny as im unsure as to whether i have got enough to be honest. i will post back results when i find out. Anyway, back to the plumbing. At the far left hand side of the top tank i have had two holes drilled. These are for two 1.5" drains to drain to the middle prop tank. Using a 1.5" ball valve to throttle the flow on one of the two drains on each tank enables it to run silently. Middle tank flows left to right. Middle tank drains to bottom prop tank. Bottom tank flows right to left. this subsequently flows back to the sump. First the flow to the sump is met with an APF600 skimmer. I then have a bubble trap followed by a shallow sand bed with cheato and calurpa. Also in there is an auto top up system and a fresh RO water resevoir at the right hand side of the sump. The fresh RO water resevoir also tops itself up automatically by utilising a float switch with a wide differential between on and off ( some 30cm ). This controls the coil of a latching relay, to control a water inlet solenoid valve that feeds the RO unit. The sump also houses a fluidised Phosphate removal reactor and my autofeeder for the Damsels that live in the sump for bioload.
I attach a wiring diagram showing the auto top up and heater/alarm controller. Hope that helps

Rich · Jul 5, 2007

Steve - Yell back if you need anything clarifying bud

Im more than happy to help people who assist me

follow3 · Jul 6, 2007

Thanks Rich!!!

That sounds like a great setup.

I'll let you know when I begin construction.

Good Luck with the lighting.

Steve

Ike · Jul 6, 2007

Do you have glass or acrylic that shields the bulbs from the water in that fixture? If not I would suspect too much UV light. I'm not sure about the UV levels of of various T5 bulbs, but I do know that many germicidal bulbs that produce UV light are T5s. So it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that T5s can produce a good amount of UV light. If that's the case UV blocking acrylic will fix the problem, or even plain old glass may be enough to eliminate it. If that's not possible raising the fixture would help.