Live Arrival Guarantee not include a fish on his death bed?

chicago · Nov 23, 2020

Would like your opinion about live arrive guarantee. So as we all know some vendors guarantee only that the fish arrives alive on some expert only fish. We understand the risk and expect a healthy fish that requires special care and treatment. We as hobbyist must insure then we know what we are doing, have the experience and knowledge to QT and get the fish acclimated to our DT. So my question is a simple one. What if the fish arrives in a terrible state and is on its death bed. NOT dead but not looking good and must report a death upon arrival for a credit or refund from the vendor. We all want to help our fish.. They are our pets. So a rare wrasse arrives and is floating and having issues staying below the surface possible swim bladder issues or something more serious. But not dead. You notify the vendor of such. The fish does not make it through the day or night. You follow up and the vendor says too bad the fish was not dead upon arrival. I would expect the vendor who was on notice that the fish was struggling on its death bed to make good. Am I wrong? I have intentionally left out the name of the vendor.

laverda · Nov 23, 2020

I definatly would expect them to cover it. When I worked for an online seller we would have just asked you to send a photo as it arrived in the bag. Then Asked you to do your best to give it a chance to survive, but covered it under the warranty. I hope you took a photo of it floating on its side in the bag. I will say some wrasses will play dead by laying on their side on the bottom.

Variant · Nov 23, 2020

I would expect the seller to cover this AS LONG AS you were over communicative during the process. If you took pictures of the fish before you opened the bag, during acclimation, after you put in in your display, QT, or observation tank, and through its death, the Seller should be understanding that you did everything you could and that the likely culprit of death was poor health prior to shipping, or shipping induced stress/death.

Now if you didn't do any of the above, then the Seller has no idea whether the death was caused by them, the shipper, or you. Sometimes fish can rebound but if the Seller doesn't see that you made a well concerted effort to help the fish rebound, it's hard to get them to be empathetic.

Just know that if you're working with a large seller who deals with big volumes of sales, you're most likely dealing with customer service, who is paid to go off a script not to think too critically about your situation.

chicago · Nov 23, 2020

Agreed... yes a large vendor and has all the signs of following "script"

I advised the seller right away of the situation and then followed up with the death. I sent them a photo of the wrasse and more. I went on their site and informed them as per their site directions and attached photos.

Today, When I asked the seller about the credit I received a denial stating that it appears to be a swim bladder issue and was not Dead On Arrival. I advised them that I informed them of the issues and really, as these are our pets, we do our best. I reminded them that I sent photo and more informing them of the situation.

The alternative would to be to invite customers when confronted with this to kill the fish rather than try and save it just to make sure your receive your credit. That I am not willing to do. I am waiting on the vendors reply... I get that when we order fish we are some times taking chances. That is why we have QT tanks and more and should only order fish we are prepared to take care of and have ability to meet their needs.. but really one should accept a fish that has issues to begin with that are so severe it cant swim and get at food to eat.

Lets see what the vendor says...

chicago · Nov 23, 2020

ok I just heard back from the vendor and they are doing right by me.

BlennyTime · Nov 23, 2020

I wouldn’t order from a vendor that didn’t have a 7 day guarantee on fish, or didn’t have a history of being reasonable to work with. Shipping puts so much stress on the fish, it‘s hard to know right away whether they will be ok or not.

chicago · Nov 23, 2020

yep agreed.. but there are simply some that are expert only so I can understand a vendor saying.. if you are not experienced dont buy please and to get to that point saying we will not guarantee after arrival. This particular vendor always worked well with me for decades.. This was a new thing that came out of the blue to me. But in the end they did do right by me. On a side note... Fed ex driver cannot read "this side up" unreal. twice now... I have made it a point to have my live stuff held at the local fed ex office and pick up myself..

DaddyFish · Dec 18, 2020

The only complication I've had with Live Guarantees is when there is some significant delay in shipping or damage to the packaging. It seems difficult to get a seller to work realistically with you when attempting to salvage a bad situation. You get the 7-days, or 14-days, or even the "but it's alive now-right?" responses.

Livestock that's been in transit for 5+ days but is still somehow technically alive, probably isn't going to exhibit all the signs of impending death until you are well into or just past the guarantee period.

Pistol Peet · Dec 19, 2020

chicago said:
Would like your opinion about live arrive guarantee. So as we all know some vendors guarantee only that the fish arrives alive on some expert only fish. We understand the risk and expect a healthy fish that requires special care and treatment. We as hobbyist must insure then we know what we are doing, have the experience and knowledge to QT and get the fish acclimated to our DT. So my question is a simple one. What if the fish arrives in a terrible state and is on its death bed. NOT dead but not looking good and must report a death upon arrival for a credit or refund from the vendor. We all want to help our fish.. They are our pets. So a rare wrasse arrives and is floating and having issues staying below the surface possible swim bladder issues or something more serious. But not dead. You notify the vendor of such. The fish does not make it through the day or night. You follow up and the vendor says too bad the fish was not dead upon arrival. I would expect the vendor who was on notice that the fish was struggling on its death bed to make good. Am I wrong? I have intentionally left out the name of the vendor.

I 100 percent agree with you. I have had fish not make it threw quarantine but not in this manner. It is sad to say but fish arriving in this state is as good as dead. I don't see why it should be any different than a DOA.. anyone who has ever been in this hobby knows just how easy it is for fish to die. Having 1 arrive floating upside down or laying on the bottom of the bag on its side doing everything except for what its supposed to should be honored by our vendors. This would make me respect and trust them a lot more. Sadly there are vendors out there that do not care about the fish they sell or the reefer buying them. Money is the route of all evil... and some care about nothing but our money being in there pocket... sorry to hear this happening still to this day.