live rock-dry rock or in between?

[56longroof]

Using real live rock and sand is alot more than just seeding your tank with bacteria. The amount of beneficial and interesting life that comes on it is amazing. The pests that may show up are really pretty easy to deal with with a good clean up crew and manual removal. I used some dry/base rock to build up my scape and put 150 pounds of live rock on it. I was adding corals by the second month and an anemone by month 3. I challenge anyone to do this starting with just dry rock.

 

[ben f.]

So my tank finally arrived from Red Sea. I'll update as I begin this adventure!

 

[ben f.]

Just curious though, I read the article from BRS reference bleaching old live rock that had been sitting a while. I have some that has been sitting dry for probably 20 years. What would be the harm just placing it in the tank without going through the bleaching process? Seems like anything that was in there has been dead for a while now.

 

[RocketEngineer]

Just curious though, I read the article from BRS reference bleaching old live rock that had been sitting a while. I have some that has been sitting dry for probably 20 years. What would be the harm just placing it in the tank without going through the bleaching process? Seems like anything that was in there has been dead for a while now.

The bleach oxidizes the organics on/in the rock so they can be removed in the flush. Otherwise those compounds can decompose out over time which can fuel algae growth. Best to just get them out before the tank gets going.

 

[BryanM]

Hello, I'm getting ready to set up my first reef tank. I'm trying to figure out what is best for structure. Live rock, dry rock, or cured reef rock. I don't want to risk unwanted pests so I'm probably going to eliminate live rock. What are some advantages/disadvantages to each, things that you learned along the way or would have done differently, etc? Thanks

If you can afford it, live rock wins, always.

 

[Fish Fan]

Just curious though, I read the article from BRS reference bleaching old live rock that had been sitting a while. I have some that has been sitting dry for probably 20 years. What would be the harm just placing it in the tank without going through the bleaching process? Seems like anything that was in there has been dead for a while now.

It's not so much that the organics are dead and won't come back to life, and more that those organics are just going to rot in your new tank. Best practice here would be to either slowly cycle the rocks in a Brute trash can or similar, which can tank as long as months. Or, bleach cure them and they'll be good as new in a few days to a week or so.

You could simply start with new rocks, and as @BryanM mentioned, using real, wet live rock has some real advantages, in my humble opinion.

Here's more info on bleach curing if you decide to go that way:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cont...g5MxGlotN6pw0UbL1dVstbtr5RmR08ZcaAu4_EALw_wcB

 

[ben f.]

Thanks Fish Fan, always appreciated.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks Fish Fan, always appreciated.

I'm happy to try and help; good luck!

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@LiverockRocks can give you more information on live rock! I highly recommend ordering rocks through them! (Tamba Bay Saltwater)

 

[hatfielj]

Hello, I'm getting ready to set up my first reef tank. I'm trying to figure out what is best for structure. Live rock, dry rock, or cured reef rock. I don't want to risk unwanted pests so I'm probably going to eliminate live rock. What are some advantages/disadvantages to each, things that you learned along the way or would have done differently, etc? Thanks

I think the most economical solution that gives you the best of both worlds is to start with a dry rock base, then get actual live rock to build on top of it. I did this with my new tank build and it worked very well. I used Australian live rock (from liverocknreef) and it is very clean, no pests found at all. I'm actually waiting for more to come in that I'm going to put in my new remote refugium.

 

[BonnieB]

Even just a little live rock should have all the bacteria you need, and if you use enough of it (50%-100%), that can result in basically an "instantly cycled" tank, where you could theoretically add fish and live stock right away. In practice, and from experience, I'd exercise a little more care that that, but that's the theory; the live rock is already cycled. Cycled and cured are synonymous when speaking of the beneficial bacteria and the rock as a bio filter - both would be good choices to start your tank.

Keep in mind you can place small pieces of live rock rubble in a section of your AIO, I do this on my 25 gallon AIO. Even some rock rubble will have all kinds of bacteria on it, it can really jump start your tank, in my experience.

I will say there are those here on R2R that absolutely do prefer to use dry rocks, sand, and bottled bacteria. I've done that, many people do it, but having also used live rock I can say that using live rock results in a more interesting and better looking tank much more quickly than using dry rocks. That's just my opinion, both methods work, and certainly dry rock is cheaper. A lot of people do say that using dry rock results in a longer "ugly phase" of a new tank, but others suggest that's not always true.

I'm going to say if this is your first tank, I would just turn the lights on and enjoy your tank. Most new reefers don't want to look at a dark tank of white rocks for several months. "Uglies" will come and go and can be dealt with. I recently did a nearly three month dark start on my most recent tank, but here I'm going to suggest you not worry about that, and just start enjoying your tank. Most new reefers can barely make it through a three week cycle without adding a Clownfish

I’m in total agreement with @Fish Fan here. I’ve always had live rock and two entirely different experiences with the hitchhikers they brought along with them. But if you want to enjoy your tank and be part of the natural process of watching it grow and mature, the good, the bad & the ugly, so to speak, then go with the best live rock you can find! And don’t be afraid of using your lights, that’s what acclimation periods are for!

 

[LiverockRocks Verified Sponsor]

Hello, I'm getting ready to set up my first reef tank. I'm trying to figure out what is best for structure. Live rock, dry rock, or cured reef rock. I don't want to risk unwanted pests so I'm probably going to eliminate live rock. What are some advantages/disadvantages to each, things that you learned along the way or would have done differently, etc? Thanks

Welcome to an addictive hobby and a great place to learn here on R2R.

There are many opinions on how to start a reef tank, and ours is to rely on the time-tested avenue of seeding a sterile environment with healthy ocean microorganisms found on real live rock and sand. Of course, you can use a hybrid method of dry rock & live rock, or all dry, or all live; save yourself guesswork / headaches / Band-Aid remedies by using a high % of ocean farmed products to start a tank.

What about pests? That is all part of the adventure and learning experience. Researching a critter is part of the process. Undesirable crabs, shrimp and snails are trappable, another educational feat. More frightening than a hitchhiker are the diseases commonly found at most LFS. Quarantining and/or purchasing from reputable sources is very important.

Can you qt ocean live rock? Absolutely, but let's clarify that and call it an "observation tank". TBS treats ocean live rock like we do a fish or coral, at all times throughout processing. Plenty of good quality, oxygenated water to keep all lifeforms thriving. If you are worried about hikers, set up an observation tank with clean flowing water, oxygen rich, some lighting and space...everything needed to keep a fish/coral alive. Spend 2 weeks looking for crabs or snails, then move the rock into your display.

I'll never start a tank without some live rock even if it's placed in the sump. The benefits out weigh the risk IME. It doesn't have to be rock from the ocean where the risk of hitchhikers is higher. I keep a brute full of live rock with only worms and asterinas as hitchhikers. I can set up a tank and add livestock the same day. Can't do that with dry rock. Also dry rock in my tanks become covered in algae while a chunk of live rock next to it remains algae free. I did one all dry rock start up and will never do it again.

EDIT. I'll give an example. This tank was started 16 months ago with all dry rock in the display. I've never had nuisance algae in the tank. I do have a lot of herbivores but i also have nitrate close to 40 and phosphate flashing 0.9 because the were more than the Hanna ULR tester can test though PO4 is down to 0.35 now which is the lowest they've been since start up. I mention my NO4 and PO4 levels because they are the first thing people blame for the cause of nuisance algae and that has not been my experience.

Exactly.
A live rock packed sump is a great solution for those afraid of hikers or who have a spectacular dry rock aquascape. Cryptic zones totally rock!

Fish Fan, thanks for the insight. If I add a few live pieces and build my scape around them, do I need to add any bacteria, or will the live rock pieces suffice and how long should this cure?

When using ocean live rock there is no need for bottle bacteria.
*Consider a reasonable ratio of ocean rock to the tank's size, amount of dry rock, etc.

With my current tank, I used dry rock to build my aquascape. Gluing wet rocks together doesn’t work well so dry is ideal for creating what I wanted. Once the tank was up and running, I introduced wet shipped rock from TBS as well as live sand. So far, it’s Ben a very smooth start. I’ve started noticing coralline algae already.

Live Sand and Ocean Live Rock is always a great combo for lifeform diversity.

Using real live rock and sand is alot more than just seeding your tank with bacteria. The amount of beneficial and interesting life that comes on it is amazing. The pests that may show up are really pretty easy to deal with with a good clean up crew and manual removal. I used some dry/base rock to build up my scape and put 150 pounds of live rock on it. I was adding corals by the second month and an anemone by month 3. I challenge anyone to do this starting with just dry rock.

Well said.

@ben f. Always happy to answer questions via DM or email.

 

[JayM]

Using real live rock and sand is alot more than just seeding your tank with bacteria. The amount of beneficial and interesting life that comes on it is amazing. The pests that may show up are really pretty easy to deal with with a good clean up crew and manual removal. I used some dry/base rock to build up my scape and put 150 pounds of live rock on it. I was adding corals by the second month and an anemone by month 3. I challenge anyone to do this starting with just dry rock.

Not that my tank is a showpiece in any way, but it's healthy, thriving and presentable, so challenge accepted.

Here's a video at 5 months in:

And one from yesterday:


Tank is just shy of 2 years old and was started with 99% Caribsea Life Rock, Caribsea sand, a couple of pieces of off the shelf dry "real" rock and a bottle of FritzZyme 9. No live rock at all. Fish were added less than 24 hours after the tank was wet, and started adding soft corals and LPS the first month. Everything you see in the first video is still in the tank now with the exception of some torches and all of the soft coral. The BTA did not come until about a year ago, but that was because I didn't want to spend $50 on one, so when I found one for ten bucks at a local coral show, I couldn't say no.

I did have an "ugly stage" with GHA for a month or two, but it was just a few patches here and there and a more robust CUC took care of it fairly quickly.

This is not to say that live rock is not a good choice, it is, but absolutely not necessary in any way. In fact, I would probably consider spending the extra money and start off that way if I could pick it up in person. I'd be at almost $2000 to set up my tank with TB live rock. Couple that with the cost of shipping and it's a deal breaker for me.

 

[ben f.]

Hello Community! It's been just about five months since I set up my reef. As an update, I did do the bleach wash on the old live rock and was very pleased with the result. I set up my scape and let it sit for about three months to cycle. I used Dr. Tim's products and it seemed to have been a success. I added my first fish (Watchman Goby) toward the middle of October and started dosing phyto after adding some pods. He did very well so I added a Canary Wrasse and a Cryptic Wrasse the end of November after a stay in the QT. All of the fish are doing well and getting along. I turned the lights on the end of November as well and added a UV sterilizer.

In December I began adding a few corals. Keeping it softies for now as I am a novice and would rather stock the tank with hardy animals. I added a CUC to stay ahead of the inevitable algae bloom and I think it's working so far. So as of today, here are a couple of pictures. I've been doing weekly 10% water changes and checking parameters. Everything seems healthy. I do have one question...

My Ca and KH are at the low end of the range. I don't have any LPS or SPS corals, but if I decide to add them, how do I raise the Ca and KH safely and can they survive if I add them while at the lower ranges?