live rock-dry rock or in between?

[ben f.]

Hello, I'm getting ready to set up my first reef tank. I'm trying to figure out what is best for structure. Live rock, dry rock, or cured reef rock. I don't want to risk unwanted pests so I'm probably going to eliminate live rock. What are some advantages/disadvantages to each, things that you learned along the way or would have done differently, etc? Thanks

 

[Fish Fan]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and congrats on your first tank!

I would not be too quick to disregard real live rock. I'm firmly in the camp of the benefits far, far outweigh the possibility of getting any bad hitchhikers. Check out the ocean maricultured rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. It's fantastic in terms of getting a diverse and beneficial biome for your tank, as well as it typically comes with an unreal amount of life and critters, the vast majority of which will be welcomed clean up crew critters:
https://tbsaltwater.com/
Second to that would be a good quality live rock from a trusted Local Fish Store (LFS).

While you can use dry rock (insert CaribbSea "life rock" here too), I believe you're better off to use at least some to ideally all live rock.

Keep in mind, you can add just a little live rock to your system to "seed" your dry rocks with beneficial microbes. Many add live rock to their sump. This way, you can build a dry rock aquascape just how you want it, but still get many of the benefits of using live rock.

I hope that helps, good luck!

 

[exnisstech]

I'll never start a tank without some live rock even if it's placed in the sump. The benefits out weigh the risk IME. It doesn't have to be rock from the ocean where the risk of hitchhikers is higher. I keep a brute full of live rock with only worms and asterinas as hitchhikers. I can set up a tank and add livestock the same day. Can't do that with dry rock. Also dry rock in my tanks become covered in algae while a chunk of live rock next to it remains algae free. I did one all dry rock start up and will never do it again.

EDIT. I'll give an example. This tank was started 16 months ago with all dry rock in the display. I've never had nuisance algae in the tank. I do have a lot of herbivores but i also have nitrate close to 40 and phosphate flashing 0.9 because the were more than the Hanna ULR tester can test though PO4 is down to 0.35 now which is the lowest they've been since start up. I mention my NO4 and PO4 levels because they are the first thing people blame for the cause of nuisance algae and that has not been my experience.

This is the sump chamber that I run as a cryptic zone.

Another dry rock start up with live rock added to the sump. This one started a bit over 2 years ago and also never really had an ugly stage.

I love live rock

 

[ben f.]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and congrats on your first tank!

I would not be too quick to disregard real live rock. I'm firmly in the camp of the benefits far, far outweigh the possibility of getting any bad hitchhikers. Check out the ocean maricultured rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. It's fantastic in terms of getting a diverse and beneficial biome for your tank, as well as it typically comes with an unreal amount of life and critters, the vast majority of which will be welcomed clean up crew critters:
https://tbsaltwater.com/
Second to that would be a good quality live rock from a trusted Local Fish Store (LFS).

While you can use dry rock (insert CaribbSea "life rock" here too), I believe you're better off to use at least some to ideally all live rock.

Keep in mind, you can add just a little live rock to your system to "seed" your dry rocks with beneficial microbes. Many add live rock to their sump. This way, you can build a dry rock aquascape just how you want it, but still get many of the benefits of using live rock.

I hope that helps, good luck!

Fish Fan, thanks for the insight. If I add a few live pieces and build my scape around them, do I need to add any bacteria, or will the live rock pieces suffice and how long should this cure?

 

[ben f.]

I'll never start a tank without some live rock even if it's placed in the sump. The benefits out weigh the risk IME. It doesn't have to be rock from the ocean where the risk of hitchhikers is higher. I keep a brute full of live rock with only worms and asterinas as hitchhikers. I can set up a tank and add livestock the same day. Can't do that with dry rock. Also dry rock in my tanks become covered in algae while a chunk of live rock next to it remains algae free. I did one all dry rock start up and will never do it again.

EDIT. I'll give an example. This tank was started 16 months ago with all dry rock in the display. I've never had nuisance algae in the tank. I do have a lot of herbivores but i also have nitrate close to 40 and phosphate flashing 0.9 because the were more than the Hanna ULR tester can test though PO4 is down to 0.35 now which is the lowest they've been since start up. I mention my NO4 and PO4 levels because they are the first thing people blame for the cause of nuisance algae and that has not been my experience.

This is the sump chamber that I run as a cryptic zone.

Another dry rock start up with live rock added to the sump. This one started a bit over 2 years ago and also never really had an ugly stage.

I love live rock

exnisstech, thank you. I'll be setting up a Red Sea AIO. No sump to start. My plan was to let the tank sit without light while the rock cured. Would this still be a good plan? Does anything change by adding live rock to the start up?

 

[exnisstech]

Adding live rock at start up will help to seed the dry rock so the sooner the better. Even just one piece can be beneficial.
Some people say running without lights to avoid uglies just delays the inevitable but I'm currently doing it in a little tank I just started. My hope is that some beneficial bacteria populate the rocks first but we'll see.

 

[X-37B]

Don't miss the boat with live rock. Minimum of 50% live.
My 15" nano cube. 20lbs live rock 20lbs sand. Tanks just 4 months old. Just took this.

 

[Fish Fan]

Even just a little live rock should have all the bacteria you need, and if you use enough of it (50%-100%), that can result in basically an "instantly cycled" tank, where you could theoretically add fish and live stock right away. In practice, and from experience, I'd exercise a little more care that that, but that's the theory; the live rock is already cycled. Cycled and cured are synonymous when speaking of the beneficial bacteria and the rock as a bio filter - both would be good choices to start your tank.

Keep in mind you can place small pieces of live rock rubble in a section of your AIO, I do this on my 25 gallon AIO. Even some rock rubble will have all kinds of bacteria on it, it can really jump start your tank, in my experience.

I will say there are those here on R2R that absolutely do prefer to use dry rocks, sand, and bottled bacteria. I've done that, many people do it, but having also used live rock I can say that using live rock results in a more interesting and better looking tank much more quickly than using dry rocks. That's just my opinion, both methods work, and certainly dry rock is cheaper. A lot of people do say that using dry rock results in a longer "ugly phase" of a new tank, but others suggest that's not always true.

I'm going to say if this is your first tank, I would just turn the lights on and enjoy your tank. Most new reefers don't want to look at a dark tank of white rocks for several months. "Uglies" will come and go and can be dealt with. I recently did a nearly three month dark start on my most recent tank, but here I'm going to suggest you not worry about that, and just start enjoying your tank. Most new reefers can barely make it through a three week cycle without adding a Clownfish

 

[Fish Fan]

Don't miss the boat with live rock. Minimum of 50% live.
My 15" nano cube. 20lbs live rock 20lbs sand. Tanks just 4 months old. Just took this.

I'm still blown away at how nice your tank looks at just 4 months! Just amazing, even considering your use of live rock.

 

[X-37B]

I'm still blown away at how nice your tank looks at just 4 months! Just amazing, even considering your use of live rock.

Thanks.
I just keep it very simple and nothing special really. 2 part, trace in ato, 1g every 2 weeks for WC.

 

[X-37B]

I'm still blown away at how nice your tank looks at just 4 months! Just amazing, even considering your use of live rock.

Also this was done with rock from an lfs that was a tank breakdown.
It came with aefw but I nuked them quick and have not seen them since.
Lfs tank breakdowns can get you some nice rock at reasonable cost.

 

[Fish Fan]

Also this was done with rock from an lfs that was a tank breakdown.
It came with aefw but I nuked them quick and have not seen them since.
Lfs tank breakdowns can get you some nice rock at reasonable cost.

That is true, I've seen this in the past at my LFS when one of their clients gives up their tank. You can get like 7 year old mature rock that way, and your tank shows that it's worth using well matured rock.

 

[RocketEngineer]

With my current tank, I used dry rock to build my aquascape. Gluing wet rocks together doesn’t work well so dry is ideal for creating what I wanted. Once the tank was up and running, I introduced wet shipped rock from TBS as well as live sand. So far, it’s Ben a very smooth start. I’ve started noticing coralline algae already.

 

[ben f.]

Don't miss the boat with live rock. Minimum of 50% live.
My 15" nano cube. 20lbs live rock 20lbs sand. Tanks just 4 months old. Just took this.

thanks, and this tank looks great in such a short time frame. I hope mine can look this nice after a year!

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Hello, I'm getting ready to set up my first reef tank. I'm trying to figure out what is best for structure. Live rock, dry rock, or cured reef rock. I don't want to risk unwanted pests so I'm probably going to eliminate live rock. What are some advantages/disadvantages to each, things that you learned along the way or would have done differently, etc? Thanks

I started my tank with about 50/50 dry and live. I am definitely in the camp of pro live rock! The benefits are hard to beat! If you are concerned about unwanted pests, Just use a bucket with hypersalinity in it. Like 1.035. put the rock in there, all the pests will leave the rock trying to escape the high salinity. then take the rock out, and pick which pests you want to keep. But, as others have already stated, the benefits from live rock are far greater than the risks. And can not be duplicated.

 

[ben f.]

if I were to add an amount of live rock to seed my tank, what would I be looking for as far as pests go? Then how would I get rid of them once discovered? I don't have a quarantine, but would quarantining live rock before building my scape be ideal?

 

[Fish Fan]

I'll add that there's more than one source for live rock with different levels of concern for bad hitchhikers. For example, I have used and recommend live rock that is ocean maricultured. What they do is take dry base rock and literally dump it in the ocean out in the Gulf off the Florida shore. They let it sit there for like 6-18 months, and in that time it becomes live rock, just teeming with all kinds of life. This rock can potentially bring nearly everything in the ocean, good, bad, and ugly. With this kind of rock you can get unwanted critters like a mantis or gorilla crabs, but again, these critters can be trapped and dealt with. This is hands down my favorite type of rock to start a tank with. The overwhelming amount of life that you get with this rock will be a welcome addition to your tank.

Then there's live rock you get from your local fish store. This rock has been in a tank for some time, and is loaded with beneficial nitrifying bacteria, and often desirable algae and more. These rocks will be far less likely to have a critter like a Mantis, though you may get unwanted things like bubble algae or Aptasia anemones. But again, those pests can be dealt with, if you get them at all.

Sometimes, you can find someone who is breaking down an older tank, and this can be a really great source of rock. It will be very mature, and often free of pests since the previous owner was likely to have already taken care of them. Check your LFS to see if any of their clients are breaking down a tank. This is a great way to get rocks that already have some corals on them too.

Last, even if you start your tank with dry rock and bottled bacteria, there is no guarantee that you won't get a pest organism eventually anyway, most of us do. Things like Aptasia, bubble algae or even fish parasites can come in on a small coral frag, so although it's a good idea to be proactive and to try to keep these pests out of your tank, it can be difficult to keep every bad actor out of your tank as you bring in desirable livestock.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

"Seeding" a tank with a very small amount of real live rock isn't beneficial btw. You'd need to use a significant amount.

 

[RocketEngineer]

"Seeding" a tank with a very small amount of real live rock isn't beneficial btw. You'd need to use a significant amount.

According to what measure? Honestly curious where this is from. My own experience says otherwise but YMMV.

I ask because I used only a few pounds of LR to seed my tank. I admit to getting a bunch of sand but that was because I needed heavier chunks to fix a flow problem. Overall I may have used 10% seed rock. And I’ve got coraline algae on the glass 3 months after introduction. I never really got the ugly stuff like I have with previous tanks. I only have the two clownfish so far so bioload is fairly light but feeding every day with no water changes for 3 months should have pushed something to show up. So far, coraline is becoming an issue, not a green one like I expected.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

According to what measure? Honestly curious where this is from. My own experience says otherwise but YMMV.

I ask because I used only a few pounds of LR to seed my tank. I admit to getting a bunch of sand but that was because I needed heavier chunks to fix a flow problem. Overall I may have used 10% seed rock. And I’ve got coraline algae on the glass 3 months after introduction. I never really got the ugly stuff like I have with previous tanks. I only have the two clownfish so far so bioload is fairly light but feeding every day with no water changes for 3 months should have pushed something to show up. So far, coraline is becoming an issue, not a green one like I expected.

If it's the microbiome you desire, then you should realize that bacteria and other microorganisms in biofilms compete. A small population of whatever strain will be eliminated fairly quickly. 10% is more than what most people add to "seed" their tank though.