Live sand, no live rocks....cycling?

[NoobandknowIT]

Oi! TIA for advice!

I have started a new 13 gallon nano tank. There is NO rock (live or dry) in there. Only one bag of CaribSea Arag-alive sand and 13 gallons of RODI water with 1.023 SG using Fritz Aquatics 80280 Reef Pro Mix Complete Marine Salt. Temp holding at 78 deg F.

I have a mated pair of clowns (common ocellaris) in there, they are doing fine. I have had them in another tank for about a year. Very stable and very tough.

There is no other livestock (no clean-up crew) in there at all.

What do you all recommend as the next step?
- No live anything in there except the clowns (and beneficial bacteria)
- wait for a magical diatom bloom before adding a small clean-up crew?
- add a couple of blue legged hermits and a few trochus and nassarius snails?
- do nothing until there is some reading of nitrites / nitrates in there?

Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sand is not enough. Live sand will provide anerobic bacteria but not as the value of live rock. You will need to add seeded live rock and add liquid bacteria to increase surface culture

 

[davidcalgary29]

Blank tanks are also tough on the fish, unless they're from the pelagic zone, and I don't imagine that many of us would have many of those in our aquaria. I'm sure that you take good care of your clownfish, but I think most reef species would prefer to have some type of aquascape -- either for protection or comfort.

There's no reason why you can't add your CUC now, as long as you know that you'll have to provide them with supplemental algae. In fact, with the small amount of nitrifying bacteria you'll have in your build without live rock, it would be difficult to support more fish in your build. I still recommend quarantining incoming CUC.

 

[NoobandknowIT]

Blank tanks are also tough on the fish, unless they're from the pelagic zone, and I don't imagine that many of us would have many of those in our aquaria. I'm sure that you take good care of your clownfish, but I think most reef species would prefer to have some type of aquascape -- either for protection or comfort.

There's no reason why you can't add your CUC now, as long as you know that you'll have to provide them with supplemental algae. In fact, with the small amount of nitrifying bacteria you'll have in your build without live rock, it would be difficult to support more fish in your build. I still recommend quarantining incoming CUC.

Excellent advice!

How long do you quarantine your CUC creatures? Different time than fish?

I try to make all life in my tanks as comfortable as possible. I did not mention I have already aquascaped the tank ( see below). I didn't like any pre-fab artificial inserts so I made my own using acrylic, Smooth-On's Black Habitat epoxy dough (safe for SW aquariums), acrylic paints, and sealed with Smooth-On's Tarbender clear epoxy coating (also safe for SW tanks).

I use Fluval bio media pre-treated (and about a capful once a week to the tank directly) with MicroBacter7 - Bacteria & Water Conditioner. I also have an air pump and air stone at the bottom of the filter stack aerating the biomedia and keeping the water oxygenated (more than just a surface ripple from a jet). A small carbon bag is in that stack as well. There's the Fluval filtration pump and split head in there plus a SINE wave flow power head I turn on for about 30 minutes after feeding. They love it and play tag in the unusual water flow!

I have had a bad experience starting a tank with live and even cured dry rock. Hitchikers, even though I took all preventive measures. SO: that's why I'm going artificial this time. After a year or so making sure the system has stabilized I will add in some Xenia and Toadstools (very good luck with those in the past).

Here you go:

Thanks!

 

[NoobandknowIT]

Sand is not enough. Live sand will provide anerobic bacteria but not as the value of live rock. You will need to add seeded live rock and add liquid bacteria to increase surface culture

Excellent advice!

I use Fluval bio media pre-treated (and about a capful once a week to the tank directly) with MicroBacter7 - Bacteria & Water Conditioner.

I try to make all life in my tanks as comfortable as possible. I did not mention I have already aquascaped the tank ( see below). I didn't like any pre-fab artificial inserts so I made my own using acrylic, Smooth-On's Black Habitat epoxy dough (safe for SW aquariums), acrylic paints, and sealed with Smooth-On's Tarbender clear epoxy coating (also safe for SW tanks).

I also have an air pump and air stone at the bottom of the filter stack aerating the biomedia and keeping the water oxygenated (more than just a surface ripple from a jet). A small carbon bag is in that stack as well. There's the Fluval filtration pump and split head in there plus a SINE wave flow power head I turn on for about 30 minutes after feeding. They love it and play tag in the unusual water flow!

I have had a bad experience starting a tank with live and even cured dry rock. Hitchhikers, even though I took all preventive measures. SO: that's why I'm going artificial this time. After a year or so making sure the system has stabilized I will add in some Xenia and Toadstools (very good luck with those in the past).

Here you go:

Thanks!

 

[davidcalgary29]

Excellent advice!

How long do you quarantine your CUC creatures? Different time than fish?

I try to make all life in my tanks as comfortable as possible. I did not mention I have already aquascaped the tank ( see below). I didn't like any pre-fab artificial inserts so I made my own using acrylic, Smooth-On's Black Habitat epoxy dough (safe for SW aquariums), acrylic paints, and sealed with Smooth-On's Tarbender clear epoxy coating (also safe for SW tanks).

I use Fluval bio media pre-treated (and about a capful once a week to the tank directly) with MicroBacter7 - Bacteria & Water Conditioner. I also have an air pump and air stone at the bottom of the filter stack aerating the biomedia and keeping the water oxygenated (more than just a surface ripple from a jet). A small carbon bag is in that stack as well. There's the Fluval filtration pump and split head in there plus a SINE wave flow power head I turn on for about 30 minutes after feeding. They love it and play tag in the unusual water flow!

I have had a bad experience starting a tank with live and even cured dry rock. Hitchikers, even though I took all preventive measures. SO: that's why I'm going artificial this time. After a year or so making sure the system has stabilized I will add in some Xenia and Toadstools (very good luck with those in the past).

Here you go:

Thanks!

Quarantining inverts can be a daunting task if you don't have a dedicated setup for it. I personally find the best approach to introduce CUC first after cycling is complete, and then have them isolate for a 45 day period before adding any fish. I find that an acceptable compromise to the longer 72(76) period of time that's often used as a benchmark for the ultimate possible length of the ich cycle. Even though I have to feed the CUC supplementally until in-tank algae provides the CUC with enough food, this also gives them a chance to breed without having their eggs eaten by hungry fish. I ended up with a ton of snails this way in my Evo and used them to populate my other builds.

Frags and coral colonies should be put in a dedicated tank. I have quarantined them in the past, but also put them directly in displays with the acknowledgment that I'm also importing some risk.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Excellent advice!

I use Fluval bio media pre-treated (and about a capful once a week to the tank directly) with MicroBacter7 - Bacteria & Water Conditioner.

I try to make all life in my tanks as comfortable as possible. I did not mention I have already aquascaped the tank ( see below). I didn't like any pre-fab artificial inserts so I made my own using acrylic, Smooth-On's Black Habitat epoxy dough (safe for SW aquariums), acrylic paints, and sealed with Smooth-On's Tarbender clear epoxy coating (also safe for SW tanks).

I also have an air pump and air stone at the bottom of the filter stack aerating the biomedia and keeping the water oxygenated (more than just a surface ripple from a jet). A small carbon bag is in that stack as well. There's the Fluval filtration pump and split head in there plus a SINE wave flow power head I turn on for about 30 minutes after feeding. They love it and play tag in the unusual water flow!

I have had a bad experience starting a tank with live and even cured dry rock. Hitchhikers, even though I took all preventive measures. SO: that's why I'm going artificial this time. After a year or so making sure the system has stabilized I will add in some Xenia and Toadstools (very good luck with those in the past).

Here you go:

Thanks!

Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters. No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.

 

[NoobandknowIT]

Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters. No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.

I appreciate your advice, again!

I have been shooting from the hip for too long, maybe...I like your idea of graphing.

With respect to the cycling: do you consider a diatom bloom the final stage? Is this bloom something you have seen in all your tanks? Not dinos, yummy brown little diatoms

Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I appreciate your advice, again!

I have been shooting from the hip for too long, maybe...I like your idea of graphing.

With respect to the cycling: do you consider a diatom bloom the final stage? Is this bloom something you have seen in all your tanks? Not dinos, yummy brown little diatoms

Thanks!

Blooms generally occur in the first 1-3 weeks although I’ve seen 3-6 month systems get it

 

[NoobandknowIT]

Blooms generally occur in the first 1-3 weeks although I’ve seen 3-6 month systems get it

to be clear, a bloom doesn't really correlate to a complete cycling at all, correct?

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

to be clear, a bloom doesn't really correlate to a complete cycling at all, correct?


that’s untrue. Any system that has sat long enough to have a diatom bloom controls it’s ammonia and there isn’t one time that’s not the case. It’s a universal rule of gauging cycles by looking at tank pics, your living clowns are evidence as well. They’ve been alive because the ammonia is controlled, not uncontrolled and when new growths hit the tank that’s a delayed proof of cycling we already see underway here, your fish are alive.

to reiterate: any system that has new visually confirmed growths was able to show perfect ammonia control on seneye, and has been keeping animals alive before the bloom
it is a universal rule that is only doubted by those who don’t own a seneye or run cycling threads


ammonia never has been an issue for you (your clowns are alive not dead, the water is clear, the system processes their daily feed and food pellet waste)

Surface area in your original setup was the limiter, but it wasn't too little or the clowns would be dead. Lots of lfs hold clownfish in a tank with just sand, such as multiple baby clownfish or smaller ones etc I've seen it many times

 

[vetteguy53081]

to be clear, a bloom doesn't really correlate to a complete cycling at all, correct?

Thanks!

No - you can get a bloom at any given time and especially when cycling. A sudden increase in the number of bacterial colonies occurs, specifically bacteria that are suspended in the water column. The bacteria grows so rapidly that collectively they become visible to the naked eye, causing the water to become milky/cloudy/hazy in appearance. This condition most often is seen in a newly started aquarium, but can also occur in a tank in which there is has been an increase in the nutrients in the water, particularly nitrates and phosphates. Excessive feeding of fish without cleaning the debris can also cause a sharp increase in nutrients that results in these blooms .