Live sand

[BigT75]

Here’s my question I got 100lbs of Caribsea live sand now my tank is ready to add it as well as aqua scape it can I add the contents of the live sand bags then add rocks then add fresh saltwater tomorrow or do I need to do the water ASAP ? It’s a reset up 135g ? Thanks again

 

[brandon429]

You need to rinse it with tap until it’s clear

Two points about that:

It doesn’t kill bacteria off the rocks, tap water isn’t a sterilizer or lab techs wouldn’t need to use more to sterilize at the end of the work day. Tap water delivers bacteria, it doesn’t kill them in the way we’d expect

The ability to work with your new tank in a cloudless condition is priceless, the bacteria that are in live sand / caribsea are not needed. It’s in excess of the bacteria that cycling provides on the surfaces that count.

At no time is the bacteria in a sandbed the critical breakpoint in having ‘enough’ bacteria to run a bioload of fish and corals provided cycled rocks are in place, using the typical amounts

The rocks are always enough, we remove sandbeds from full running reefs all the time in the sand rinse thread. at no time do live rocks take time to ‘take on more bacteria’ in the presence of a sandbed being removed...not how microbiology works. The rocks maintained their own steady states the whole time, independent of the sand, and their surface area is enough says the bare bottom tank generation. This means you’re able to rinse your new sand in tap water until it runs clear. You’ll be inputting cloudless grains. Easy to move rocks around afterwards, ideal in every way and in no way is not rinsing a better option.

 

[Brad Miller]

You can do this, the sand will be fine
If your going to have a sand shifter like a goby or shrimp, then you may want to put the rock on the bottom , then the sand since they will tunnel underneath and make the rock work shift u till it's on the bottom.

 

[Brad Miller]

You need to rinse it with tap until it’s clear

Two points about that:

It doesn’t kill bacteria off the rocks, tap water isn’t a sterilizer or lab techs wouldn’t need to use more to sterilize at the end of the work day. Tap water delivers bacteria, it doesn’t kill them in the way we’d expect

The ability to work with your new tank in a cloudless condition is priceless, the bacteria that are in live sand / caribsea is not needed. It’s in excess of the bacteria that cycling provides on the surfaces that count.

At no time is the bacteria in a sandbed the critical breakpoint in having ‘enough’ bacteria to run a bioload of fish and corals
The rocks are always enough, we remove sandbeds from full running reefs all the time in the sand rinse thread.

I thought live sand is not to be rinsed, says it right on the bags.

 

[BigT75]

These are new 20lb bags do I rinse those ?

The rock is dry

 

[BigT75]

I just don’t have the water to fill ready yet was wanting to scape it now lol or should I have it ready at the time of scaping

 

[brandon429]

Consider my edits above, expanded some of the condensed material from this thread about why rinsing is best, regardless of the directions to use that little flocculant packet

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445.

See how we take full mature reefs and remove the sandbed all at once

Notice how some of the reefs are worth big $, the rules we make for sand are used to save thousands of dollars in lost animals.

You’ll want to pre rinse.

The bacteria in a sandbed aren’t required, or bare bottom reefs couldn’t work

Tap water doesn’t dwell long enough to sterilize in this case, you just rinse in tap and then last in clean water or sw, ready for use. If there were worms, starfish and animals in the sand we’d might not rinse, caribsea is not like that. If you rinsed sand as much as you wanted in tap water, hot or cold for as long as you want, then I took a sprinkle of that sand back to my lab and pinched it across agar designed to foster aerobic bacteria growth- then incubated it correctly for 48 hours- you’d have trouble distinguishing it from a wal mart door knob bacterial colony count. Tap is just filthy, but it’s cleaner than tanked water with no pressure and no chlorine

The bacteria don’t come from the water plant, they come from everlasting pipe scum sloughs

 

[bluprntguy]

I thought live sand is not to be rinsed, says it right on the bags.

Correct. Live sand shouldn’t be rinsed and certainly shouldn’t be rinsed with tapwater.

It’s fine to spread the sand the day before. Live sand has a fair amount of liquid in it and it will be wet enough for a day or two. If you are careful when adding water, there will be minimal cloudiness.

 

[Mits]

I'd add the rock first, the sand just isn't stable enough to be the foundation for your entire aquascape. I added the sand first years ago and regretted it after I fought rock shifting.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I always place sand on bottom and spread out. then I add water, then the rocks. When tanks clears, you can place rocks wher you want them and then get yourself some aramilk which is a supplement to get the cultures in the sand active.
Liquid bacteria is also a good add-in to the new tank. I love Dr. Tims or Fritz turbo zyme 900. the stuff works !!!

 

[brandon429]

Consider the volume of work above along with all sandbed edicts bluprnt



I promise it’s only directed at caribsea types, they’re starting to sell loaded real live sand (TBS check it out) and I wouldn’t rinse that type. We save tanks for pages solely by rinsing and rock cleaning no chems

 

[bluprntguy]

Consider the volume of work above along with all sandbed edicts bluprnt

I promise it’s only directed at caribsea types, they’re starting to sell loaded real live sand (TBS check it out) and I wouldn’t rinse that type

I’ve read some of your thread. It generally ignores basic scientific facts. Chlorine in our tap water absolutely destroys bacteria. It doesn’t destroy every bacteria and microorganism, but it certainly destroys most of them on contact. That’s why it’s so effective as a disinfectant in our tap water.

Will rinsing your live sand with tap water destroy ALL the bacteria in the sand? Probably not. A scant few might survive. Rinsing live sand will destroy MOST of the nitrifying bacteria that most people want to maintain in their reef tanks.

Back to the OP’s question, yes, you can put the live sand in and leave it overnight without filling the tank. It will stay wet enough. When you fill the tank, just be careful not to disturb the sand and you will have very little cloudiness.

I also recommend rock first, sand second except for small rock islands with little weight on top.

 

[nicodim55]

Why would anyone pay the extra costs for Live Sand if you're going to rinse it anyway like the non Live sand bag? It doesn't make sense, I think this is one of the reason why people chooses the Live Sand, as opposed to the Non Live sand is to not have to RINSE it. Just my 2 cents, Todd I think you'll be fine adding the sand a day before you put the water in. Good luck buddy, can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[brandon429]

Blprnt


I linked this thread to our rinse thread. We'll compare upcoming works directly to your claims, see how things pan out.


your writing seems to close the matter on rinsing, bacteria, tap water microbiology, bacterial requirements all in one post as if there's not a massive need out there for updated sandbed science... if you ever decide to test your claims, link us to that work as well. We show that you can pre rinse and have a better experience.

When you rinse caribsea, you're still keeping the bac it only evacuates the silt. It also teaches sandbed access vs sandbed hands off science from the nineties

rising live sand from caribsea doesn't strip it of nitrifiers, it strips the silt. You're still getting instant cycle sand after the tap rinse, it's too brief to be a sterilizing agent. The main benefit is being able to arrange rocks and make inevitable adjustments in the new tank without a bunch of clouding.

 

[brandon429]

I searched really hard to find this thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sandbed-stirred-up.544852/

best example for pre rinsing I’ve seen

 

[bluprntguy]

I searched really hard to find this thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sandbed-stirred-up.544852/

best example for pre rinsing I’ve seen

I just set up a new tank with caribsea live sand. I didn’t rinse it. I put my live rock down and then dumped in the sand. I was careful to pour the water on the live rock in order to avoid stirring up the sand. My tank was crystal clear in a few hours. My tank fully cycled in two days. Absolutely no problems. Thousands of people use live sand every year without any problems. One or two people posting on a board isn’t indicative of a problem. If you don’t like the dust in the sand (it’s NOT detritus - it’s dust created from sand rubbing together during shipping) then you can use a gravel cleaner for your first water change. It’s not very difficult to remove the dust after you’ve placed the sand in the tank. You also won’t risk destroying the nitrifying bacteria that way either.

Regardless, the OP simply wanted to know if he could put the sand down and leave it overnight before filling the tank. That’s been definitively answered. You seem to have a personal vendetta against live sand. It might be better to take that to your own thread instead of derailing this one.

 

[brandon429]

You are the derailing, notice nobody else has issues with simple prep. I too have used it without rinsing, and still prefer the cleaner approach

 

[Leo58]

Sorry I don't see the point of rinsing the sand when you don't have to. If you know how to do it will cloud the tank for a few hours only. It's the same idea as you don't wash live rocks.

 

[brandon429]

That guy in my link though had a full tank clouding after cycling, just cuz a rock fell, we think this is unhelpful compared to just never having the issue

If you want to have sand that can opaque a tank with rock slides or if a powerhead comes loose, not rinsing will deliver that at times. Rinsing also guides out the early diatom fuel by removing the high fraction silicate portion

Another neat way to see it is if you took any measures for ammonia processing before and after a rinse it doesn’t change the readings if re tested. So if being totally cloud free lends the same cycling ability as liability clouding, it’s clear to see how we get so much success in our big sand rinse thread just by starting off a little different than the masses would do. We find no benefit in keeping the silty cloud portion.

 

[Leo58]

I beg to differ with you cause one time my anemone retract into the sand and I thought it may die so I dig the sand all over looking for it and the cloudiness pretty much stay at that area. The truth is once bacteria coat the sand much of that cloudiness went away unless you use very fine sand.