The official Sand rinse thread (aka one against many)

brandon429

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Intro to sand in the reef aquarium

If you are about to do sand work in your tank, it's worth an hour's read to see the examples here before you begin- outstanding patterns and details we customize for each tank can save your tank from loss, and there's likely a comparative tank already in as many pages anyway showing the complete job start to finish. Details. Like never holding your fish with live rock as you work, or not putting on full production lighting after the rework (ramp back ) are how we get so many jobs done without loss.

Or details like never remove your sandbed while water is in the tank, avoiding clouding mixed with fish and corals is what we do here. Sandbeds are full of waste that can kill your system depending on variables, so this whole thread is a brainstorm of ways we take apart your reef so we can wash out that filthy sandbed without exposing your animals to its risk.

If you are reading this thread to handle an invasion, such as cyano, diatoms, dinos or other matted invaders commonly associated with sandbeds or rocks (substrate) then the most important thing to grasp is we are changing aquarists behavior and the tank follows, not the other way around. Today's aquarists store up waste, we reverse that.
Today's aquarists hesitantly and partially clean the tank, to avoid cycles, thinking bacteria can't handle a cleaning. We address that directly. Today's aquarists expect their systems to be low work, invader free, all without having the right grazer balances matched to conditions in their tank (random grazer additions work 10% of the time, and add new waste sources to your tank)

You become the grazer in this thread

Having pictures of an invasion in your tank means up till now, you left invaders in place, able to grow and be photographed. Able to collect feed and insulation housing, left in place, until some lucky stroke through the water helps out... All of that gets reversed here, when someone is applying the tenets of this thread accurately they'll never have pictures of an invader to post after we're done, because they're able to clean their tanks correctly now, they're willing to access them, and they have the final say over invasions and they're not left to random animals dumped in the tank.

We make your system totally cloudless here, then there's no invader feed and the invader themselves are usually entirely removed in the cleaning process. if you are stocking from locations that have new invaders to import, then expect to be accessing your system until that's done. We've made it cycle-free, by removing the filthy waste in the sandbed, you apply the discipline to hand guide all invasion out of your tank from here on out. Never let them amass for that group picture again~
*****you will find that immature surfaces harbor invasions much worse than years-old quarter inch thick coralline live rock. Those run invader free, without work, you work until your system matures then you go cruise control for the rest of its time

We're not scrubbing things forever, we're guiding until you don't need to guide.

Reefing is not about sitting back and seeing what happens to your investment...well not here anyway. We refuse to lose any system, ever.

*You can command compliance from your aquarium from day one, we start by the first practice of total access, against the rules, with your initial sandbed rinse if you are setting up a new tank or planning a move to a new tank
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nuvo-10-crash.630156/

right in that thread, we use rip cleaning to save the tank from a loss cascade/die off event. Notice how he just implemented the work without fanfare, being thorough to rinse that bed out, rinsing the rocks in saltwater...this is a great 1st example of a rip cleaning which is all the same action whether we're moving, upgrading, downgrading, responding to an invasion, or just doing preventative maintenance. We didn't waste time asking for/responding to nitrate readings, phosphate readings, nitrite and nitrate because those don't matter. What we do is safe for aquariums, and though it seems scary, resetting the balance instantly vs a wait is certainly one thing you can do quickly in a reef tank which is better than doing the slow way, we'll show by repeating pattern here.


A very extended cloudy water bloom, months and months, abated with a rip clean


This is an example of what occurs if you do not rinse it, we can prevent this condition in every case by managing detritus




Starting out a new tank with perfectly rinsed Caribsea sand

here's how long it takes to pre rinse effectively:

Pre rinse your new caribsea live sand before use, to remove silt vs flocculate it later into your system. No it doesn't sterilize it, or kill the bacteria, they're stuck to sand grains and rinsing doesn't remove bacteria or household cleaners wouldn't be necessary, we'd tap rinse our kitchen to sterility in spite of its surface area and scum layer variation. This thread is about using accurate microbiology to manage the sandbed in reef aquariums. Here’s a few threads that prove you need to start out with highly rinsed sand, in tap until it runs clear, then in ro water to evacuate the tap water, then it’s ready for use-cloudlessly

Tap rinsing allows you to take time so that it’s truly cloudless. It doesn’t sterilize your sand it’s not enough dwell time. Pre rinse because:
‘took months to clear’
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/so-i-didnt-rinse.592624/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sandbed-stirred-up.544852/#post-5723606

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/very-cloudy-water-after-sand-and-rock.559386/#post-5735864
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/question-about-vacuuming-sand-bed.616059/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-milky-cloudy.616519/

10 days, still won't settle and clouds fully
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cloudy-tank.576835/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bummer-could-use-some-help.558301/

people causing their tanks to be cloud free vs clouded is ok, this isn’t like the tags on a mattress where they come get you if you cut one off

pre rinsing new sand before use is key. Look at your sand, grab a handful. Bring it up to your eyes and observe it for wiggling movement. Did your wet pack ocean direct sand with the little flocculant packet come with worms, moving crabs and pods, the components of live sand? If not, then rinse it before use. If you bought real live sand, real live sand, then don't rinse it and post pics so we can see the first example on the board. Mostly, we're dealing with caribsea which needs to be pre rinsed. **update feb 2019 TBS, Tampa bay saltwater, sells real live sand- don’t rinse. It’s not caribsea.

Not rinsing your caribsea sand brings it's first cloud into your reef, the #1 action we're against here. Thankfully this cloud isn't compounded waste detritus, that's for aging tanks. This initial cloud is silicate powder, which early diatom invasions love but won't cause a cycle.

Two sources of clouding related to sandbed physicality are silt clouding and detritus clouding, make it a point to anticipate these conditions and don't allow them.



Reef tanks with sandbeds are still the vast majority of living reef tanks in the world. We need a way to access them without loss

We need a way predict how they work ahead of time...before age and dollars and years stack a hundred pounds of live rock and corals on top of a specialized zone in an aquarium that may or may not currently treated as special in the design. let the pages of tanks reveal their own patterns.

This thread is about curing tank invasions like cyano that are often related to sand beds/consider how long we're taking to cure invasions and consider the after pics posted/follow through

Notice the total control over cycling, no losses.

By predicting detritus store physicality, usually off before pics alone, we continually point out (and reverse) certain factors about reef tank sandbeds that are associated with mini cycles, nutrient imbalances, and invader challenges. All by repeatedly doing the same action to sandbeds- the direct opposite of what the rules say to do with them.

******This is a thread where the aquarist moved tanks, swapped out the entire sandbed all at once with no rampdown, and changed up rocks in the new tank and did not cycle at all/ Seneye Ammonia reading shows skip cycle biology here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-swap-how-long-until-things-stabilize.620888/



Sand completes the look for many; its a wrasse zone for others. For some, its a fifteen year undisturbed reason they don't have to change water very often (the rare nitrate reducing sandbed, the goal of every sandbed for most keepers). For others, its a visual zone of animal and plant life interacting... free from the currents and predation rates of the top water level, many aquarium sandbeds have worms and pods participating in that niche of the tank in interesting ways. Don't disturb your sandbed if it doesn't fit the overall plan for your tank, if your tank is running uninvaded just fine...or if you have the specialized remote sandbed that doesn't need disturbing or cleaning--no need to change course if a specific plan involving a sandbed is underway in your aquarium.

Aquariums with sand have been present since the start of the hobby and will always be part of the hobby but for many keepers, seasoned and new, they've become a maintenance challenge. Its very hard to battle imported/hitchhiked invasions like dinoflagellate strains or even persistent cyano and spirulina invasions with a sandbed in place for some tanks. Sand grains are a refuge for the invader, grains are a housing system in many cases that insulates a target away from medications added to the water...sandbeds give invaders places to hide out of the reach of the keeper, since by and large most sandbeds are ran without intervention, hands off. Its very helpful to be able to pull/clean/put back a sandbed in a consistent manner in response to certain challenges or invasions without fear of losing bacteria or causing a system crash.

We can see masses of reef keepers moving away from sandbeds altogether on their second or third attempt setups...or we may see in current threads the aquarists investing $ in new and unplanned offsets such as GFO, biopellets, carbon dosing, Chemiclean, red slime remover, new and ongoing grazer experiments from conchs to crabs, or new plant filtration arrangements-- not as planned adjuncts to the demands of coral but as a reaction to rising nutrient measures and/or invasions...this sets the stage for sandbed access as an alternate control method--that's the focus of our thread. When prompted to act on a sandbed, we will demonstrate reliable techniques here.

We routinely see threads across forums where sandbed access is required at some point even when not under invasion. There are house moves, upgrades, downgrades, breaks and emergencies...there's power outages and rock slides, and all sorts of reasons a keeper would need to "dive" into their sandbed, here we document a road map to enacting that access successfully by collecting and analyzing the threads and documentations of hundreds of reefers who undertake this challenge and pre-plan with us.

What's so bad about sand, in the tanks where things aren't going well?

It never was actual calcium carbonate sand grains that caused this shift in the hobby... clean sand grains didn’t cause the countless tanks we lost to 'mini cycles' at times where a bed disturbance or unpredicted rock slides upwelled enough rot to actually cause loss (and be visual in the tank as a mud cloud)

It was detritus, in between the grains and adhered to them


Mulm, muck, detritus, term it how you will but detritus is the collective waste of fecal pellets, uneaten feed, dead animals in partial states of decay, spent chitin molts + plant matter and cellulose material + live nonfiltation bacteria producing waste acids and gasses as they digest components of detritus into minerals... as an ideal endpoint given enough time and special conditions in the sandbed (the rarest condition we see in thread sandbeds)

Detritus is bioload and feed for bioload at the same time; the bacteria that are housed in a common deep sand bed feeding and living on detritus are massive consumers of oxygen and massive emitters of co2 respective to the tank. Extra detritus has more fuel for bacteria than just a cold stone surface might have. This detail matters greatly during power outages for example... even if a sandbed is running fine and without challenge, it’s still a massive respiring organism collection relative to volume and as soon as circulation stops, the sandbed becomes the greatest liability in the tank. A death cascade from millions of aerobes low on air turns quickly into poisoned water, and that’s in addition to the oxygen command the bed’s living portions remove from solution as direct competition against display fish. Tanks without sandbeds (or with clean grain sandbeds) live longer under duress than tanks with sandbeds as a firm rule. See how context determines how posters view sandbeds and the waste they contain? People in outage prone regions have issues other than nitrate to consider when it comes to using sand in the aquarium, or keeping sand clean, this is an example of hidden pros and cons we can see as attributes of detritus microbiome biology and not so much an innocent sand grain.

Detritus is also excellent coral snow...feed, so while it’s valuable in the wild it’s also pretty diluted there as well so make sure any system storing detritus long term here has special practice and planning, the average reef tank is AGED by detritus inching closer to plant dominance (eutrophication) and removing detritus without killing the tank comprises 98% of work we do here. Retail stores sell fifteen frozen and refrigerated alternatives to detritus as feed should you clean your tank too well.

Strength of our bacteria and the ‘mini cycle’

The mini cycle from some form of move or disturbance is never caused by loss of bacteria...bacteria are resilient post-cycle. It’s takes a course of antibiotics to kill bacteria once they’re set by a cycle, because nitrifiers in the cycled reef tank are housed in biofilm insulation. minor changes in salinity and temp and feed variations don’t kill off your filtration bacteria. If a brief rinse in cool tap water was antibacterial on stratified surfaces, you wouldn’t need soap when you wash your hands (more on tap rinsing later, it’s a vital prep tool)

A loss event or stress mini cycle is caused by upwelling of detritus (things we can see and or smell recurring theme) formerly isolated from the water column, mid breakdown, where isolated ammonia pockets or other metabolite pockets are now cast among sensitive animals within the tank.

The mini cycled tank might be cloudy, or smelly, or corals withdrawn for extended periods, or it might have tiny bio-indicator animals like pods and worms moving up quickly to upper levels of the tank.... signifying oxygen loss...a mini cycle can be visually detected and predicted ahead of time, they're never a surprise. You'll see a recurring theme that I don't use test kits nor params to guide this thread as we are working with masses we can see in the tank (detritus/clouding). By dealing only in macro scale visual markers for once as a reefing technique vs test kits that measure invisible players, we will keep a tight control over where cycles occur, we will know when to take tank action, and we will be able to opt out of a cycle when required.

The most important aspect of this thread is participation, it's not a theory battle at all. It's a picture, prediction, action, and follow through thread. A series of action sequences, required.

Any good science must welcome debate. The way to frame your debate isn't with a link, or a tale of former employment, or education, and especially not a picture of your current reef.

This is an action thread, you're remedying something if you post here. If you have a better way to move, upgrade, downgrade, skip cycle, stop invasions as action sequences involving before/after pictures, be welcomed to post that. It's entirely what we collect here



IMG_20170714_215405-picsay.jpg


The system which reflects the science applied in this thread is the reefbowl pico reef. It's 13 yrs old, packed with full colony corals demanding sustenance, and testing it repeatedly reveals the order of ops required to take action in any size reef tank without causing a cycle.


The contributions to this thread from aquariums of all sizes will demonstrate the true nature of sandbeds in the reef aquarium, we want the challenge cases here and want to see ways you employ a sandbed dynamically

The exact science that runs the reefbowl will run the actions in this thread, we're all linked with the same biology- merely operating on different time scales.

Smaller reef tanks pack a lot of metabolism into a tiny command space; they tax the environment for food and ion support and most of all, compounded detritus has quick effects.

The reason I like testing and extracting science from micro reefs vs large reefs is because we can model in five years what a fifteen year old 150 gallon reef would take to manifest. We get to see, or not see, eutrophication in light speed comparatively.


The reason all my corals are left in the air for 33 minutes is so that the thread is started off with my own investment on the line-the weakest tank here, least dilution/least room for ammonia spiking is getting the harshest treatment anyone with a giant reef will ever post. Let the action sequences begin.

Drain half hour
Next morning

# of times this has repeated, hundreds.

Everything we'll see collected here is an extension of this work shown above. Because you can do that to a pico reef over and over, the moves/upgrades/downgrades/invasion fixes we plan here will be a breeze.
 
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saltyhog

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I did not use "live" sand and won't choose to ever with future tanks (if you can even find regular dry aragonite any more). It's just not necessary. I would choose to seed the tank with some live rock (or start with all live rock if I can afford it) and use "dead" sand. I have brittle stars, pods (at least before my wrasse got to them), bristle worms and all sorts of beneficial critters that I got with macroalgae or live rock.

If I were using live sand I don't think I would rinse it at all, especially not with tap or even RO/DI water. Not sure how much life would survive that.

Do those that use live sand actually see any of the larger critters like worms and brittle stars in the sand? I never thought about those types of life forms being able to survive the process of packaging and shipping the sand.
 
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brandon429

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Reefrookie220

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OK Brandon , I'm starting a new tank today and would like you to give me your rundown on the rinsing procedure. I'll crack open a brand new bag of sand and follow this to the letter because you piqued my interest. I've never rinsed before and have seen issues with the silt.
 
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brandon429

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I have skimmed milk my own tank too back in the day. after cussing and changing water over and over I had to rinse thereafter, preemptively.
 
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brandon429

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Reefrookie howdy

the tap water is what I used and it makes for good positioning here but really its much less controversy to just rinse in your clean salt water. I literally did this: put the new sand (which for me was ocean direct semi wet, plenty silty, comes with flocculant for silt) into containers and blast clean them with blasting water, then rinse in saltwater, then put in tank. I insulted nobody other than the silt and nine people online :)
if you used saltwater that's even less insult to the bacteria on the grains, but my point was I didn't need them anyway. I bought the sand cuz I like the look and grain size, whether it was wet or dry didn't matter. no clouding mattered!

can you show us a pic of what your sand looks like when you first fill it up, the cloudy version>

then a post pic of a really rinsed portion, cloudless. enjoy your tank being like that forever. now when you assess it, silt wont be there, only the waste.

my sandbed which had been switched out in my very old tank is now about 6 mos old. I can reach into it with a stick, stir it around, and grains fall up and back down, zero clouding.

Contrast that to 98% of sandbeds active right now, you stir that milk with a stick, you wipe the tank. a monster under the rug.

lets pre-rinse at least ~
 
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erk

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I don't use live sand. I just get dry sand and rinse it out. Then I get a bottle of bacteria and dose that into the tank. Either the generic tank cycle stuff or Micro Bacter 7. Thanks for starting this thread. Now I know why everyone's tanks start out looking all milky. I thought they were rinsing, but I guess they are using live sand, so they don't rinse.

How do people rinse their sand? I usually dump the sand in a 5 gal bucket and use a water hose to just spray and move the sand around. I question my method because I'm afraid I'm grinding the particles and making more silt.
 
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brandon429

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and they were told rinsing would have a neg consequence.

Many bare bottom keepers aren't there for the look, they're there for the clean access to detritus and not storing waste in the tank and its clear why large tanks consider that move.
but I needed the look of sand without having the tank loss/headache it can cause, so we broke some rules again to attain an ends, we just rinse instead of hands off. some worms might have died in this process, and that was ok since detritus took precedence. the worms reseed back into the sand, from the rocks, am awr of the articles claiming otherwise...they do.

**not advising tearing halfway into an old sandbed packed with waste, a big cleaning has a certain order and none of it is partial. the initial part of the thread is about how to start the bed, rinsed.



as of today everyone is advised not to rinse... and I think its factoring into the fact that sandbed look and outcomes haven't changed since we watched them come about in 90s and remain unchanged in practice through today, is fun to question that stagnation of practice. maybe we should shake it up and be deliberate and allow no rot.



the grains are tougher than that, they wont grind down on initial rinse

I do what you said above to my -living- tank not just a new one.

not saying everyone should do what I do to my bed, but am inviting everyone to consider applying the method to problem tanks, or as a preventative.
using mb7 is neutral, harmless to try for the various reasons its bought. if someone wants to boost some bac, boost it, or not they are going to find a balance as a community regardless.
 
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brandon429

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Paul B's 45 yr old reef takes direct decisive action against detritus, deep thorough cleanings in fact when he does clean I read on his descriptions... I found that interesting such an old reef really was exporting although the work is lessened by his interim algae scrubber filter as well... the point is, the oldest tanks in the genre of nano reefs up to large full sized home reefs are acting decisively against sandbed detritus.

Paul's sandbed is reverse undergravel flow, how much more detritus rejecting can one get? That pumps waste out...into the water, not down sinked in the bed.

its not about the rinse, its about the detritus. if you don't want to rinse, deal another way, but not dealing means you will eventually rinse or start over.

its not about the bacteria, its about the silt=heart of the matter.

on old tank syndrome:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/5/aafeature2
 
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Reefrookie220

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Just filled it with fresh redsea coral pro water after rinsing with the above mentioned method.

Alot of crap was in a fresh bag of nature's ocean Aussie gold Reef sand!


The dark bits are pieces of shell that I find really cool, you can't tell from My phone pic but its got a nice orangy tint.

This has been filled for 7 minutes, and dosed with bottle bacteria.

IMG_20160114_190535.jpg
 
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brandon429

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Started without silt, nice





if you are able to keep detritus input from outpacing output or if you are able to uptake detritus breakdown in tank, before it causes problems, then you can rinse less on your sandbed.

Here's a nano friend doing instant full bed swap, skip cycle reset
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/substrate-change.329063/#post-4113962


Many sandbed keepers are using partial stirring/siphon during each cleaning to stay ahead of input, excellent. our details here are more aimed at the times we need to full access for one reason or another, and how to avoid a tank cycle or unintended loss when accessing a brand new or aged sandbed.
The recycle is avoided by not having detritus stored in the tank, however that's attained. Where the detritus/organics go, goes the cycle and the ammonia or sulfide event. Don't house it. My sandbed never ages.
IMG_20160114_200356589.jpg
 
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RR how did it come along this last week? Clean perhaps :)

Anyone have a persistent sand bed problem? RTR has been busy lately in sand access threads. Moving, upgrades, fixing eutrophication, avoiding sandbed and rock cleaning altogether and posting problem tank pics, all very fun biology. Danger biology, with people's tanks on the line in fact.


http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376428-cyano-is-kicking-my-butt-no-longer/page-3

look at page 3, how sandbed control stopped his persistent cyano issue (exports the mass and addresses the pent up waste)
 
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john.m.cole3

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so rinsing will not remove the bac on the sand's surface area just like aiming a powerhead or dusting detritus off a cycled rock doesn't remove the bac from said rock? If one were to use simple logic (i know) then rinsing is a safe strategy to remove excessive dust particles that have potential to cloud your tank and cause other issues in the future. I'm doing it!
 
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Ha! I've never thought about the tie in to flow within the tank, nice one ~ it's true, somehow they manage to hang onto the rocks and not get cast off fully into the water :)

I should have taken before shots of my sandbed this weekend... had been lazy and let it build up some cyano and detritus due to excellent tank feedings

×××what if I'd chose to start dosing my water with something due to the cyano, or upped the flow after it was already good enough, a cyano goose chase might have started. I opted to blast it out, along with all feed for it, dose nothing, gain instant compliance to me that is reef control. Just because a given tank is running well with fully loaded sandbed doesn't mean it always will, consider cleaning cruddy sandbeds as needed. I'm using my own tiny reef as an example, there is no dilution in this thing- it will die if any of this science is wrong. It would have died in 2006 if this science is wrong that's a lot of blast cleanings.


the cleaning run was Lubbock tap water as mentioned in first post. I parted out my whole mini reef on dinner plates to wait for cleaning, leaving only sand and water, then tap rinsed it free of detritus.

After zero detritus existed (since initial rinse yr ago removed silt, all clouding onward is waste) I rinsed the bed with saltwater really well, evacuating the tap water, and put it all back together mega clean


No cycle, no tank stress, no waste, indefinite biological lifespan.



Waste detritus is always the recycle risk, not loss of bacteria from rinsing.



Not everyone agrees that rinsing a matured sand bed is the right way to go. I wanted to show a repeatable access method that prevents a recycle in case someone has to, for example an upcoming move or perhaps someone wants to reverse-age their tank... this is how we do it. You can rinse in clean saltwater too, I used tap and then a sw rinse since I didn't have much saltwater handy.
 
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brandon429

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I could have got longer than three months between these blast rinses but am specially feeding my tank 3x normal to regenerate some stressed sps I bought from store. This got the top 1/3 of the bed dirtier much faster than normal. It will still reseed with worms and pods from the live rock in a few mos just like last time


***when rinsing sands with tap water, have a follow-up saltwater rinse to remove the chlorine***
 
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john.m.cole3

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@brandon429 what are you feeding your pico? and does detritus accumulate if no fish are present? Wait... do you keep fish? Is detritus a term that ONLY means fish waste, or does it also represent unused foods?

Also, how would one rinse in SW? Old tank water? Tap exclusive to rinse solely not ok? You mean our bac on substrate/rock/surfaces can't hang if done using only tap?

I'm not challenging your info here, just need to know the severity and consequences of aforementioned actions. Plus have you had a burger from Gators Bayou yet? The jalapeno bun is insane! Maybe it's the silicone fumes or slight amounts of epoxy residue that are driving my inquisitive nature tonight. Tomorrow is sand rinsing day... with garden hose water... and I need to know if I need to do something else after sand is cloud free. Thanks friend!
 
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Your whole investment and biosystem is on the line, good to clarify before beginning agreed.

By rinsing in saltwater I had just the regular blue water jugs ready to go

Detritus is that feed, resulting animal waste, chitin shell forms from invert molts, plant cellulose, all forms of sold waste. A wonderful example of the perpetual nature of detritus for us is that live rock from the store is a true living system, it literally exudes waste from its pores and wherever else a respiring animal resides on it. That's in addition to what we store, add as feed, add as extra animals, then fish waste, all compounding. If you set rinsed clean purple live rock in a bare glass tank with heater, power head you get detritus within a few days from inside the rock, exuded out.

I feed my pico heavily, roti feast and cyclopeeze for me. No fish agreed, too small of a system. Corals must be fed, the nutrients they make from light via symbionts is not enough to live they must feed and they have a trophic classification to reflect that

My intention on mentioning my tap rinse isn't that tap is preferable to clean saltwater, sometimes it's more practical. rinsing in tap then rinsing in saltwater still leaves bacteria on the grains, doesn't sterilize.

Rinsing in all saltwater uses lots of extra saltwater so I conserve it just as a final rinse. When you rinse to remove debris and detritus some good goes out as well, but they come back over time and it's a risk to transport waste in a sandbed. Many forego the rinse and buy new bags of sand, start clean upon transfer is same end less work than rinsing.

In the last several tank move threads here are the problems summarized, for your avoidance:

One poster had mini cycle in new setup because live rocks were plugged with detritus and after cleaning a lot came out in the transfer containers the rock was sitting in and began to rot. Not a common scenario but his live rock was recovering from a long time of cleaning needs. Make your system free of this waste before moving if applicable. Moving waste causes the recycle in the new tank

Another poster failed to completely rinse and transported either dead worms or partial detritus or both, rinse x 200. Upon re setup, the partially rinsed sandbed can leak ammonia or nitrites

Another poster rinsed in tap and failed to rinse it back out, and set up their new reef over a bed of wet clean sand and tap water, coral stress followed

don't move dirty anything. Transport rock in multiple holding buckets not with fish in them, fish get their own buckets.

Make the new tank pristinely clean first install, move no waste. Starting with fresh sand should be highly considered. As hard as it is to believe this is fact: tank transfers go bad due to overlooked waste or animal death as a cycle cause, never ever loss of bacteria.

That means if you move no waste, even if you start with freshly rinsed new live sand, you still have enough bacteria even though the system was made pristinely clean during the transfer and not gradually after. Be positive that new tank has no copper or cross contamination potential you mentioned that as a concern recently.

I haven't been there to Gators I'm such a pattern person I keep eating at ohana for twelve years pretty much go scallops and hibachi. My kiddo was raised there really heh
 
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john.m.cole3

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Ok, so I met w/ Jason, owner from Salt N More, and we talked about previously mentioned circumstances of copper worries and such. He recommended no old rock transfer, rinse live sand, and use bacteria supplement 24 hours prior to transferring all fish and corals. He claimed to have done that procedure exactly on a new tank and has had no fish loss (he transferred 12 fish). He's the first to confirm a live sand rinse but disagrees w/ rock transfer secondary to potential risks. Thoughts...?
 
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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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Need clarity on the live rock xfer part

if you don't transfer old live rock does that mean you would start off with new live rocks at your house? Those w have to be transferred from the store :)

Perhaps the goal is ultimate safety, by moving zero old rocks stored with waste and using new cured live rock from the store? As long as the old rock isn't wasted but recured I guess you can but that also speaks to a redesign for the new tank because lr has an indefinite lifespan when cared for correctly. Shouldn't be finite like that

I like his store I have some good quality frags from him we are lucky to have two really good stores close to us for resources.

Regarding the nuances of the move to me those aren't impactful as a loss risk but moving detritus is impactful. In the cycle thread we covered adding bottle bac for various reasons, whether it's required isn't the same as it not being harmful to add whenever you want. We are adding bacteria to our systems as contamination with everything we add, every action we take. Putting some in aqueous form from a bottle is more of the same. If someone wants to use it as bac buildup insurance that's just fine and fair pre planning. The reason I hadn't mentioned it is because I do to my mini model every several mos what you are contemplating doing this is a normal Tuesday for some 16 yr old corals I have heh.

Can you post pic of what you will be moving
 
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