Looking for advice on return pumps

[Engloid]

I was running a mag24 in my basement, pumping up to the display upstairs. The mag failed today. I have a vortech vectral L1 that I'm not using, and have considered trying it there.

I also am looking at other pump options. I'd like to go to a DC pump, and prefer internal. I'm open to other options also. I want something reliable, but noise isn't really a problem since its in the basement.

Head height would be about 11 feet. The mag runs about 1100 gph at that height, from what I have read.

 

[jeff williams]

I've been looking at a lot of saltwater mixing stations and a lot of people are using the pan world pump I thin it might be because of the price primarily but what I done was to use the same pump my DT uses in case I have a pump fail on the DT I got a back up

 

[Flippers4pups]

I run a Pan World 150ps on my system, head around 13' going on four years now. It's a beast.

Pumping that much head requires a pump that is pressure rated. Most DC pumps can't handle much in the way of head pressure.

External and magnetic drive pumps are far more robust and though they use more energy, tend to last years and years in this type of application.

Blue line/Pan world, Iwaki and Reeflow are dominant in the hobby and for good reason, they last and last.

 

[Engloid]

Yes, in reading more, it does seem like a DC pump may not be able to do what I need it to do.

I do have a new Panworld 100px pump here, but I don't think it will work well either. I looked up the specs on the 150ps you have, and the flow seems quite a bit lower than the mag....much lower, especially at height. The max output is 70lph (18gph)....or am I misreading something?

 

[Flippers4pups]

 

[Flippers4pups]

 

[mcarroll]

I was running a mag24 in my basement, pumping up to the display upstairs. The mag failed today. I have a vortech vectral L1 that I'm not using, and have considered trying it there.

I also am looking at other pump options. I'd like to go to a DC pump, and prefer internal. I'm open to other options also. I want something reliable, but noise isn't really a problem since its in the basement.

Head height would be about 11 feet. The mag runs about 1100 gph at that height, from what I have read.

It's hard to argue against at least trying the L1 since it's apparently paid for.

However, the Dolphin Ampmaster 4750 (external) is a shoo-in as a replacement...about the same flow as your Mag:

Do you actually need 1100 GPH for your return? That would be a lot of flow even for a 250 Gallon.

11ft isn't that much head loss – if you don't need so much flow you would have more pump options. Even switching to smaller Mag pumps.

 

[Engloid]

I really would like t get away from the mag pumps. They seem to run well for the most part, but the housings wear and magnets crack. I probably could go with less flow, but dont want to have to push a pump to its limit to get much flow at 11ft. I will look up specs on that pump. somebody has offered to trade a reeflow marlin, which may work well...but does seem like a bit much. It wont save any power, thats for sure.

 

[TylerS]

From the L1 head loss vs flow curve it will work just fine. at 10' and 15' it's more flow than your old pump at less than half the power usage.
http://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra/vectra-l1

Don't waste your money on another pump

 

[Engloid]

From what I'm seeing, the Dopphin is nowhere near the same flow I'm getting. Looks like 20gph at 11ft.

 

[Engloid]

From the L1 head loss vs flow curve it will work just fine. at 10' and 15' it's more flow than your old pump at less than half the power usage.
http://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra/vectra-l1

Don't waste your money on another pump

Perhaps I should consider that, after looking at the specs again. It looks like it may be about 1100gph at 11ft, and open up for more flow options down the road, as well as save some power.

 

[Engloid]

It sure would be nice if ecotech would do away with that stupid reeflink. I think it's just ridiculous that I can plug any one radion to my laptop and it will communicate with the others wirelessly to program them ....but I have to have a wire from the computer to the one. They all have wireless ability, so why not make them all able to communicate with the computer, instead of each other?

So...in order to use any wireless features of the L1, I have to have a reeflink. None of the ecotech pumps have the ability to slow down at night, but a jebao that costs much less has a light sensor and will.

 

[TylerS]

Not to distract from the L1, but that dolphin curve is gallons per minute on the x axis by the way. So 20*60 or 1200 gallons per hour, but shutoff at 12 feet so I wouldn't consider it. You want some margin above your projected head height just in case.

 

[Engloid]

Not to distract from the L1, but that dolphin curve is gallons per minute on the x axis by the way. So 20*60 or 1200 gallons per hour, but shutoff at 12 feet so I wouldn't consider it. You want some margin above your projected head height just in case.

Good point. I guess I missed that.

 

[Engloid]

I put the L1 in as a return, and it works fine. I havent measured the output, but based on the look of it, its about the same as I got with the mag24. Hopefully, this will help my electric bill. It is a lot quieter also. Now I have to find another power adapter cord, because I cant find the one it came with and robbed the one from the mp40. The one I have puts out 32volts. That is the mp40 cord, right? Anybody know specs on the L1 adapter?

Thanks.

 

[mcarroll]

I really would like t get away from the mag pumps. They seem to run well for the most part, but the housings wear and magnets crack.

It's fine to switch for whatever reason you want, of course, but they are certainly not known for any of that happening.

Take all of this as just for posterity since you have the new pump online already.....unless it's still returnable.

I probably could go with less flow, but dont want to have to push a pump to its limit to get much flow at 11ft.

It's not a question of "pushing" the pump...they're made for that. Or at least they're supposed to be....you'll find out on that Vectra.

It's a question of what flow you need for the application in question.

Return flow for a tank is ususally anywhere between two-times and four-times the display size.

So for example, a 100 Gallon tank would do well with anywhere between 200 GPH and 400 GPH of actual flow through the return.

somebody has offered to trade a reeflow marlin, which may work well...but does seem like a bit much. It wont save any power, thats for sure.

Good instinct – waaaay overkill.

Not to distract from the L1, but that dolphin curve is gallons per minute on the x axis by the way. So 20*60 or 1200 gallons per hour, but shutoff at 12 feet so I wouldn't consider it. You want some margin above your projected head height just in case.

Hm...

It's right on target and only uses 126 watts to deliver all that flow!

I say buy the flow you known you need vs over-buying for some hypothetical reason/just in case.

I put the L1 in as a return, and it works fine. I havent measured the output, but based on the look of it, its about the same as I got with the mag24. Hopefully, this will help my electric bill.

Power savings on the pump is probable vs the old Mag24....but not so likely to show up on the power bill as the system will engage the heaters more often now.

But the Dolphin would have been similar to the Vectra.

Dolphin: 126 Watts
Vectra: 130 Watts

Neither have any "headroom" left, for what it's worth so the argument for buying a variable flow DC pump doesn't fly.

And I'd bank on a Dolphin outlasting a Vectra any day.

 

[TylerS]

It's fine to switch for whatever reason you want, of course, but they are certainly not known for any of that happening.

Take all of this as just for posterity since you have the new pump online already.....unless it's still returnable.



It's not a question of "pushing" the pump...they're made for that. Or at least they're supposed to be....you'll find out on that Vectra.

It's a question of what flow you need for the application in question.

Return flow for a tank is ususally anywhere between two-times and four-times the display size.

So for example, a 100 Gallon tank would do well with anywhere between 200 GPH and 400 GPH of actual flow through the return.



Good instinct – waaaay overkill.



Hm...

It's right on target and only uses 126 watts to deliver all that flow!

I say buy the flow you known you need vs over-buying for some hypothetical reason/just in case.



Power savings on the pump is probable vs the old Mag24....but not so likely to show up on the power bill as the system will engage the heaters more often now.

But the Dolphin would have been similar to the Vectra.

Dolphin: 126 Watts
Vectra: 130 Watts

Neither have any "headroom" left, for what it's worth so the argument for buying a variable flow DC pump doesn't fly.

And I'd bank on a Dolphin outlasting a Vectra any day.

Not sure why the constant plug for dolphin, but it would be a poor choice to buy a pump that has zero flow only 1 foot higher than your anticipated head loss. That's just plain bad advice.

Head loss calculations are inherently inaccurate and pump performance and pipe resistance can change over time with wear and maintenance. When pump hunting you should find one where your target flow rate is right in the middle of the curve. That way if your calculations or measurements are off or there are slight changes in the pump or system you don't get drastic changes in flow. In this case the L1 works well. My comments are not in regards to DC vs AC, but in this case the dolphin pump would be a poor choice. A different AC pump could work fine.

 

[Engloid]

I see some good points and discussion. I think the dolphin would be a longer lasting pump. Simply put, its more of an industrial based design. I do have an old reeflo pump somebody just gave me. He said it doesnt work and he doesnt know why. I may check it out sometime.

The L1 seems to be working well for now. I need to program it into return mode though. Right now its just on constant. I have a neat sump system in the basement.

1.5 plumbing gravity drains from upstairs, into a 3ft filter sock in a 55g drum that sits on cinder blocks. Near the top is a bulkhead that lets gravuty drain into the top of a second one. Near the bottom of it is a 1.5' bulkhead that comes across and to an eahoppea aump. It houses the reef octopus, ato, vectra and some bioballa. Since the line from sump to to sump 3 is open, they carry equal water level. As the eshoppes fills frm ato, the second pump will also.

 

[Trickman2]

Interesting, how is the vectra working out for you?

 

[Engloid]

It's working very well, actually. I run it about 3/4 of the way up. It's pumping up from the basement. Here's my flow chart. Think I had a stomatella get into my meter and stopped it for a while.