Looking for thoughts on organic carbon dosing and nitrate

[bishoptf]

I had great success with lowering my nitrates with vodka or vinegar in my bare bottom tank. Both work equally well in my experience.

Thanks Miami, I think having a sand bed helps but I wasn't sure if I was chasing fools gold with a BB tank, really appreciate you replying.

I guess I should say, its BB with no sump, just an AIO tank, lots of rock though but still just wasn't sure since so far I have not seen any decrease in nitrate values.

 

[PeterErc]

Where’s the cliff note page, you guys make my head spin. Very interesting but would take days for me to comprehend and follow.

My first experience with carbon dosing was with vitamin C from the nano reef forums. Calcium Ascorbate was recommended because it was buffered. I tried to find the old thread and all I could find was the dosing schedule.
I have since switched to vinegar which has been the go to.

Has anyone recently tried dosing vitamin c recently?

from web:

You need to be careful dosing the VC. Here is a chart:
OK, in short, you should order some Sodium ascorbate or Calcium ascorbate from here: www.i-herb.com.
(you use this code: FOR500, you get $5 off at www.i-herb.com.)
You can drop it under your skimmer cup.

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC

Be sure your pH is around 8.2 & your alk is around 9-10, before you start. Keep an eye on both (I test weekly, now that I notice no changes).


The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:

Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm

Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm

Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm

Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm

After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days to 30 more days, depending on the severity of what you are treating for.

The total treatment period is thus 14-30 days but can last longer if need be.

In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more

During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon

During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads, SuperChem and the like).

The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation.

Note that when you use these kind of Vitamin C concentrations it really is of utmost importance that you monitor you pH and ensure that it does not suddenly drop.

Check the pH before you add the C but check a few minutes later also. If the pH is too low add a complete buffer immediately to re-establish your alkalinity and increase the pH of the water in the tank. This is very important indeed.

It is important too, to realize that your dKH must be in the 9 to 10 range to minimize the amount of cloudiness that will develop. It the dKH is high (e.g. 12 or more) you will initially have a lot more cloudiness. This will gradually disappear though as you continue the treatment.

While working in a solids processing building a wastewater operator gave me the short version of the process.
They grow bugs to eat the sewage, then bugs to eat those bugs.

————————-
I don’t know what happens in our tank, or if the bio pellet polymer is a flocculant. I would imagine that it’s a bug eat bug world in there.

Oh and how do they now the planktonic life on the ocean isn’t from space?
Not a real question, and that discussion could continue to spin heads, so please don’t answer lol

I've wo
I've been wondering, given the fact that apparently there is planktonic life from the oceans that have shown up on the outside of the international space station, is it even possible to be putting things like a new frag in the tank without introducing a ton of organisms?

I mean, if they are scraping the exterior of a thing in space, and finding growing cultures of ocean life on it, how the heck am I gonna keep it away if its just getting distributed through space?

Is low diversity of microbial life possible over time in our tanks?

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Thanks Miami, I think having a sand bed helps but I wasn't sure if I was chasing fools gold with a BB tank, really appreciate you replying.

I guess I should say, its BB with no sump, just an AIO tank, lots of rock though but still just wasn't sure since so far I have not seen any decrease in nitrate values.

It takes time for carbon dosing to start making a noticeable impact on nitrates unless heavily dosing. Keep it slow and steady.

I'm not an expert, but I am pretty sure I am right that not observing it at your point is normal, and that increasing dosage now to bring on a change might cause nuisances.

 

[bishoptf]

It takes time for carbon dosing to start making a noticeable impact on nitrates unless heavily dosing. Keep it slow and steady.

I'm not an expert, but I am pretty sure I am right that not observing it at your point is normal, and that increasing dosage now to bring on a change might cause nuisances.

Yeah understand, I am basically following Red Sea Charts and directions:

Measured Level (ppm) ....................Daily Dose ml/100 L (25 gal (US))
NO3 above 10 ---------------------------------------3
NO3 above 2.5, but less than 10 ------------------2
NO3 above 1 but less than 2.5 ---------------------1

But using the DIY recipe, so there may be some differences but upping to 3ml starting today and will continue to test. after making a change.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Where’s the cliff note page, you guys make my head spin. Very interesting but would take days for me to comprehend and follow.

My first experience with carbon dosing was with vitamin C from the nano reef forums. Calcium Ascorbate was recommended because it was buffered. I tried to find the old thread and all I could find was the dosing schedule.
I have since switched to vinegar which has been the go to.

Has anyone recently tried dosing vitamin c recently?

from web:

You need to be careful dosing the VC. Here is a chart:
OK, in short, you should order some Sodium ascorbate or Calcium ascorbate from here: www.i-herb.com.
(you use this code: FOR500, you get $5 off at www.i-herb.com.)
You can drop it under your skimmer cup.

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC

Be sure your pH is around 8.2 & your alk is around 9-10, before you start. Keep an eye on both (I test weekly, now that I notice no changes).


The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:

Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm

Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm

Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm

Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm

After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days to 30 more days, depending on the severity of what you are treating for.

The total treatment period is thus 14-30 days but can last longer if need be.

In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more

During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon

During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads, SuperChem and the like).

The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation.

Note that when you use these kind of Vitamin C concentrations it really is of utmost importance that you monitor you pH and ensure that it does not suddenly drop.

Check the pH before you add the C but check a few minutes later also. If the pH is too low add a complete buffer immediately to re-establish your alkalinity and increase the pH of the water in the tank. This is very important indeed.

It is important too, to realize that your dKH must be in the 9 to 10 range to minimize the amount of cloudiness that will develop. It the dKH is high (e.g. 12 or more) you will initially have a lot more cloudiness. This will gradually disappear though as you continue the treatment.

While working in a solids processing building a wastewater operator gave me the short version of the process.
They grow bugs to eat the sewage, then bugs to eat those bugs.

————————-
I don’t know what happens in our tank, or if the bio pellet polymer is a flocculant. I would imagine that it’s a bug eat bug world in there.

Oh and how do they now the planktonic life on the ocean isn’t from space?
Not a real question, and that discussion could continue to spin heads, so please don’t answer lol

Interplanetary spermia hypthesists, where ya at

 

[GARRIGA]

Just completed another round of NoPox at 33% over the recommended dosage to combat dinos and red cyano. All gone. Since it's a Fuge test, I don't bother testing nitrates and phosphates but this is now the third time I've used NoPox to solve these issues. Haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere but has worked for me and I've done nothing different other than reducing light intensity yet it's worked with low and high intensity. Stopped because I'm getting that white bacterial film from overdosing. Waiting for that to go away and see if I can induce dinos and cyano again. Four times a charm.

Have done this with and without adding MB7 and it seems that doesn't have an impact. Going to do this round with lights at full intensity for a longer period and without MB7.

One caveat, adding de chlorinated tap since that contains silicates and perhaps that has helped. Not going to stop that therefore if dinos return then they didn't previously disappear because of it. Too many variables and were I a scientist I'd probably test differently but I'm just seeking a solution for my main and not as concerned about exactly what contributed to success as I can continue adding MB7, NoPox or equivalent, silica and control my lighting. Goal is confirm that solves this. Plus more flow for the cyano. How I've kept that in check previously.

 

[GARRIGA]

Cyanobacteria can consume organics, just like other bacteria. Plus, they can photosynthesize and they can take N2 from the air and convert it into useful molecules. That might give them a boost over bacteria that cannot. They may also thrive better than other bacteria just in general as they are a very successful set of organisms in the ocean:

"Cyanobacteria, previously known as blue-green algae, are the most primitive organism present on the earth. They play a vital role as the primary sources of oxygen and as nitrogen fixing agents in aquatic environments"

Cyanobacteria—From the Oceans to the Potential Biotechnological and Biomedical Applications

Cyanobacteria are photosynthetic prokaryotic organisms which represent a significant source of novel, bioactive, secondary metabolites, and they are also considered an abundant source of bioactive compounds/drugs, such as dolastatin, cryptophycin 1, curacin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Tried my best to read that paper but mostly gleaned the items specific to marine. Bottom line. Is the red cyano we experience actually detrimental or just unpleasant to see. Assuming you kept it off your corals and just allowed it to otherwise be. Seems it's performing the same task as macroalgea in that it removes nutrients and co2 and produces oxygen.

I believe blue green cyano is toxic based on the warnings here in south Florida when it appears. Linked to dogs dying and people getting sick. According to the news.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Where’s the cliff note page, you guys make my head spin. Very interesting but would take days for me to comprehend and follow.

My first experience with carbon dosing was with vitamin C from the nano reef forums. Calcium Ascorbate was recommended because it was buffered. I tried to find the old thread and all I could find was the dosing schedule.
I have since switched to vinegar which has been the go to.

Has anyone recently tried dosing vitamin c recently?

from web:

You need to be careful dosing the VC. Here is a chart:
OK, in short, you should order some Sodium ascorbate or Calcium ascorbate from here: www.i-herb.com.
(you use this code: FOR500, you get $5 off at www.i-herb.com.)
You can drop it under your skimmer cup.

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC

Be sure your pH is around 8.2 & your alk is around 9-10, before you start. Keep an eye on both (I test weekly, now that I notice no changes).


The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:

Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm

Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm

Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm

Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm

After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days to 30 more days, depending on the severity of what you are treating for.

The total treatment period is thus 14-30 days but can last longer if need be.

In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more

During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon

During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads, SuperChem and the like).

The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation.

Note that when you use these kind of Vitamin C concentrations it really is of utmost importance that you monitor you pH and ensure that it does not suddenly drop.

Check the pH before you add the C but check a few minutes later also. If the pH is too low add a complete buffer immediately to re-establish your alkalinity and increase the pH of the water in the tank. This is very important indeed.

It is important too, to realize that your dKH must be in the 9 to 10 range to minimize the amount of cloudiness that will develop. It the dKH is high (e.g. 12 or more) you will initially have a lot more cloudiness. This will gradually disappear though as you continue the treatment.

While working in a solids processing building a wastewater operator gave me the short version of the process.
They grow bugs to eat the sewage, then bugs to eat those bugs.

————————-
I don’t know what happens in our tank, or if the bio pellet polymer is a flocculant. I would imagine that it’s a bug eat bug world in there.

Oh and how do they now the planktonic life on the ocean isn’t from space?
Not a real question, and that discussion could continue to spin heads, so please don’t answer lol

Dosing vitamin C was quite trendy for a while, but I’m not a fan and never saw a rationale for it. Dosing sodium ascorbate will boost alk and drop ORP through the floor, potentially changing the bioavailability and toxicity of trace elements.

 

[ScottB]

Thought it would be a good idea to post about my recent experience to the thread. Background: system is almost 3 years old and 200 gallons. Decided to do carbon dosing since my nitrates got up to 30 and my phosphates were about 0.1 and being controlled by GFO. I chose to use distilled white vinegar as vodka had given me some cyano in the past. Dosed roughly 20 ml a day for about 2 weeks and then quit when I started to see cyano build up in my sump. Nitrates never went down at all and tested at the same 30 afterwards. At the start of my dosing there was no signs of cyano anywhere.

Side note: I was running a skimmer and UV sterilizer 24/7 throughout the whole process and this may have affected the results.

I have witnessed the same thing, even at low dosing levels. As we are dosing carbon to increase bacteria populations -- and cyano is a bacteria -- I guess we shouldn't find it too surprising. I am a little surprised you didn't find dosing effective at reducing nitrates though. Were you PO4 depleted by chance?

 

[PeterErc]

Dosing vitamin C was quite trendy for a while, but I’m not a fan and never saw a rationale for it. Dosing sodium ascorbate will boost alk and drop ORP through the floor, potentially changing the bioavailability and toxicity of trace elements.

thanks for the info.

I don’t remember exactly, the vit c was dosed to help zoanthids from melting, then that thread blew up. Later on in the thread people started mentioning that Vit c was a carbon source and the cloudiness was a bacterial bloom etc etc etc