Lost a fish. Can you take a look please?

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

This is in my big system, knock on wood it’s been a minute since we lost someone in this tank, short of the Blonde Naso situation going around. Yesterday I noticed 2 dead emeralds. CUC scavenged them good. All fish eating and eating well. Nothing weird or anything. However, the blue hippo last night I noticed when he went to his sleeping hole was breathing wildly hard. About 20 minutes later I noticed he relocated to the overflow side. I thought he was sleeping there for the night. He must have expired and floated over to the inlets of the closed loops. He was barely held to the inlet near his eyes, so the stomach spot is not from being sucked on.

There are two things in the last 30 days that are different. #1, I’m dosing 70mil of ammonia over 12 hours (Randy’s recipe). But see test. The other is I took about 40 pounds of rocks from a garbage can that I was cooking in and put them in my sump to prep them for a new system coming online in 30 days. Now I’m concerned I did something with these rocks. The rocks were in an old system plus some extra TBS that didn’t fit. They have been in salt water for 8 months. I’m going to have to make water if I have to do any water change. I’m on AWC and I’m schedule to make water today, but I won’t be able to use it for a couple hours.

Thoughts?

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

The pic didn’t come through but my first thought is ammonia poisoning or a rapid depletion in oxygen levels.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The pic didn’t come through but my first thought is ammonia poisoning or a rapid depletion in oxygen levels.

Pictures up.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

System is 525g. 70mil over 12 hours isn’t much. Per the test it’s not detectable.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I have 2 large fox face. I was looking for a puncture to see if maybe one of them got him?

 

[Catawba_Valley_Reef]

Man, that’s too bad. A nice looking fish.

Rapid breathing unfortunately could be a sign of so many things.

The only thing I can think of outside of it getting stung by the Foxface would be a rapid depletion in o2 levels…not sure how the new rock would have done that.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I just took a vid of the fish that would come out when I was standing there. They get stage fright, lol. Yeah. I had him since he was 2” :(

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I put an air stone in my return chamber to increase oxygen for now until, well I don’t know, lol. I can’t see how this rock did it. But maybe I need to pull it. I’m hopeful it was a fox face that took him out. Display looks like a 400g skimmer right now. Maybe 5 minutes every 30 minutes on OCS?

 

[ReefEngineer]

Sad to see you lost such a beautiful fish.

 

[W31Olds]

How large is your Tang? He looks bloated to me maybe indicating an internal problem. Did he eat yesterday?

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is in my big system, knock on wood it’s been a minute since we lost someone in this tank, short of the Blonde Naso situation going around. Yesterday I noticed 2 dead emeralds. CUC scavenged them good. All fish eating and eating well. Nothing weird or anything. However, the blue hippo last night I noticed when he went to his sleeping hole was breathing wildly hard. About 20 minutes later I noticed he relocated to the overflow side. I thought he was sleeping there for the night. He must have expired and floated over to the inlets of the closed loops. He was barely held to the inlet near his eyes, so the stomach spot is not from being sucked on.

There are two things in the last 30 days that are different. #1, I’m dosing 70mil of ammonia over 12 hours (Randy’s recipe). But see test. The other is I took about 40 pounds of rocks from a garbage can that I was cooking in and put them in my sump to prep them for a new system coming online in 30 days. Now I’m concerned I did something with these rocks. The rocks were in an old system plus some extra TBS that didn’t fit. They have been in salt water for 8 months. I’m going to have to make water if I have to do any water change. I’m on AWC and I’m schedule to make water today, but I won’t be able to use it for a couple hours.

Thoughts?

I doubt ammonia poisoning as tank itself would be affected. This is a test kit I do not trust and as a first step would encourage you to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Blemishes appear once a fish is dead and while this could be bacterial, how do others look as far as breathing rate and eating and any behaviors from hepatus tang noticed prior to death such as heavy breathing, sudden darting, hiding, loss of appetite, etc?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I doubt ammonia poisoning as tank itself would be affected. This is a test kit I do not trust and as a first step would encourage you to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Blemishes appear once a fish is dead and while this could be bacterial, how do others look as far as breathing rate and eating and any behaviors from hepatus tang noticed prior to death such as heavy breathing, sudden darting, hiding, loss of appetite, etc?

I have a Hanna ammonia tester, I'll go run that one. I got this one for free and it was a 5 minute test. Explains the high cost. Others are fine. All fish are eating. I now have 2 airstones going in my sump. I might as well always have an airstone running in there I guess. Last night wicked heavy breathing when it was sleep time. No other fish with symptoms, at the moment.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I doubt ammonia poisoning as tank itself would be affected. This is a test kit I do not trust and as a first step would encourage you to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Blemishes appear once a fish is dead and while this could be bacterial, how do others look as far as breathing rate and eating and any behaviors from hepatus tang noticed prior to death such as heavy breathing, sudden darting, hiding, loss of appetite, etc?

The blue hippo was normal - Eating like a cow, and out and about. It started late last night as lights were going out.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

How large is your Tang? He looks bloated to me maybe indicating an internal problem. Did he eat yesterday?

6 - 7 inches. It's a cow, just fat. I have around 25 fish in the tank, I think 10-11 tangs. I feed frozen rods equal to 1 cube 5 times a day via AF4, My plank goes 3 times a day and I feed flake twice a day (the deworming food). Plus 1 sheet of nori a day. I know, that's a lot. Buy I am like 12/.14 (normally .10).

 

[MnFish1]

With or without repeat tests - I agree with you that ammonia toxicity is very unlikely - I have not doublechecked whether your ammonia addition calculation is correct - and I would assume that you're taking into account sump volume, rock volume, etc. The ICP is not helpful that I can see as to the cause.

As to adding rock - I suppose it's possible that something was added that affected the fish - however, it's odd that your other fish are 'fine'. Disease from the rock would be unlikely since I'm assuming it has not been in contact with fish? And the timing is also off.

Also - just for the sake of completeness - can you define what 'emerald you lost'? If its emerald crabs - this becomes a situation where both fish and invertebrates are effected (potentially) - and suggests more of a chemica/toxin/oxygen issuel rather than a disease issue.

The things I can think of are:

1. A disease added through something else you added to your tank (like flukes) - (not the first choice) - that you didn't mention above.
2. A sudden oxygen drop or ammonia increase - which for some reason affected the tang more than the other fish and is now resolved. Related to the addition of the rock - or sulphur or a number of other things. A pH swing can rapidly turn NH4 into NH3 - but - again - I can't see how adding rock would do that.
3. A coincidence - i.e. the tang was going to die of (whatever) - anyway and the rock addition had nothing to do with it Unfortunately, the post-mortem pictures are not helpful (to me) - as it could be gas swelling the abomen etc that occurred after death.

The good news is that the other fish and inverts are doing ok - I would watch then carefully. Additionally - I would not have necessarily added your rock to the sump - I would have kept it separate for the other tank - as whether it happened in your tank or not - adding new rock in this way (even though 40 lbs in a 500+ gallon tank is not much) can cause problems chemically.

 

[vetteguy53081]

6 - 7 inches. It's a cow, just fat. I have around 25 fish in the tank, I think 10-11 tangs. I feed frozen rods equal to 1 cube 5 times a day via AF4, My plank goes 3 times a day and I feed flake twice a day (the deworming food). Plus 1 sheet of nori a day. I know, that's a lot. Buy I am like 12/.14 (normally .10).

Not a lot. I have 39, maybe more fish in my tank as they do not stay still. Theyre getting 3-4 oz per day with also dry from auto feeder. 27 of my fish are tangs

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

With or without repeat tests - I agree with you that ammonia toxicity is very unlikely - I have not doublechecked whether your ammonia addition calculation is correct - and I would assume that you're taking into account sump volume, rock volume, etc. The ICP is not helpful that I can see as to the cause.

As to adding rock - I suppose it's possible that something was added that affected the fish - however, it's odd that your other fish are 'fine'. Disease from the rock would be unlikely since I'm assuming it has not been in contact with fish? And the timing is also off.

Also - just for the sake of completeness - can you define what 'emerald you lost'? If its emerald crabs - this becomes a situation where both fish and invertebrates are effected (potentially) - and suggests more of a chemica/toxin/oxygen issuel rather than a disease issue.

The things I can think of are:

1. A disease added through something else you added to your tank (like flukes) - (not the first choice) - that you didn't mention above.
2. A sudden oxygen drop or ammonia increase - which for some reason affected the tang more than the other fish and is now resolved. Related to the addition of the rock - or sulphur or a number of other things. A pH swing can rapidly turn NH4 into NH3 - but - again - I can't see how adding rock would do that.
3. A coincidence - i.e. the tang was going to die of (whatever) - anyway and the rock addition had nothing to do with it Unfortunately, the post-mortem pictures are not helpful (to me) - as it could be gas swelling the abomen etc that occurred after death.

The good news is that the other fish and inverts are doing ok - I would watch then carefully. Additionally - I would not have necessarily added your rock to the sump - I would have kept it separate for the other tank - as whether it happened in your tank or not - adding new rock in this way (even though 40 lbs in a 500+ gallon tank is not much) can cause problems chemically.

Thank you for taking the time. Will I cause yet another issue if I remove the rock? The more I think about it, the more it had to be the rock. It was about 2 hours after I loaded the rock that I noticed the heavy breathing. For some reason, I didn't corrulate the two. I also didn't think adding rock would be an issue, then this morning I watch a podcast and someone talked about having far too much rock in their system caused a crash, a low crash. So, can I pull it?

Responses to your #'s
1 - I hope not.
2 - My ph normally is high (8.50+) but from when I added the rock, till I noticed the expired fish my PH was on it's typical decline.
3 - The fish does look swallon, if you had not looked it prior to that picture. It's always been a future case study for Ozempic.
4 - My actual displacement 517G if I use .85 of my display, I have a frag tank and 2 sumps. Without getting super technical, the rock is sitting in my remote sump which is the primary sump for the frag tank. I have 2 - 1.5" crossover pipes that equalize the water. Normally my frag tank pump is in my main primary sump, thus the frag tank and its sump are always in a "equalization mode". However, I got a slight case of ostreopsis (free swimming) dinos isoloate in my frag tank. I swamped out my actual frag tangs and used a new rack at the same time. Too much virgin material. So I set up an M1 with a UV system that is pulling water from the remote sump directly to the frag tank sump. There isn't any equalizing going on. I have just about beat the dinos, but have been doing this for a week. So I don't think a ton of water is being exchanged between sumps right now. I have zero fish lost in the frag tank, which makes this even odder.
5 - I have 3 closed loops on display. Each has a 1.5" - 2" intake strainer. It is normal for me to see crabs crawling on my intake baskets. Last night I found a emerald and a gorilla (I didn't do a good job last year with my TBS rock) each sucked into a strainer. When I feed frozen via an AF4, my system shuts all 3 of my loops down for 15 minutes. It's possible they walked up on them, and were closer to the high suction area when the system restarted itself.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Not a lot. I have 39, maybe more fish in my tank as they do not stay still. Theyre getting 3-4 oz per day with also dry from auto feeder. 27 of my fish are tangs

No poop? How big is your tank? there are 3-4 more different tangs that I want. I've been advised against adding more tangs. Now I want to place antoher order. I watched your tank spot with Humble that night. I should have asked questions.

 

[vetteguy53081]

No poop? How big is your tank? there are 3-4 more different tangs that I want. I've been advised against adding more tangs. Now I want to place antoher order. I watched your tank spot with Humble that night. I should have asked questions.

Current tank is 10ft long - 400g …..500 total volume

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@vetteguy53081 - Hanna came back .04. I read Taricha wrote below that it appears I’m safe from ammonia: