Love Hate Relationship

[pa1ntbru5h]

I have this love/hate relationship with zoas.. They're awesome corals with endless varieties and they add a lot of color to a tank. They're relatively easy to keep and fast growing.
The hate comes from them randomly melting.. and it's always the high end ones. Always...
I probably have about 50 different kinds of Zs and Ps in my tank.. Ranging from colonies to single polyp frags.

I've noticed this trend where any of the frags that I absolutely cherish, eventually end up melting.
They will go from being perfectly healthy for months to closed up and spewing their guts overnight. And usually by the time they're not looking so hot, the pods are already cleaning up the mess. The second I notice the spewing guts I dip in Lugols or Furan-2, but 99% of the time it's already too late.

Pods are the only thing that I've found to be the culprit. No other pests.
My parameters are spot on and exactly where I want them to be.
I test every other day. And yes I've checked over multiple test kits.
No stray voltage, no rust.

Anyone else experience issues like these? I'm currently trying to control the pod population to see if that'll help.. but I've already lost my prized pieces (CB Bloodshot Krakatoa colony, Hallucinations, etc.)

 

[Palyzoa]

Have struggled with this as well... Everything is going great and then boom, melting!

 

[BoomCorals]

I can't say I've experienced any unexplained zoas melting. I've usually been able to see or discover the cause such as pox, "the brown stuff", etc. Have you looked really closely at them for signs of those kinds of things? Have you looked for pests like the nudis?

 

[revhtree]

You say your parameters are spot on. I don't doubt you but are you testing for things like ALK and CAL? I'm just wondering here.

 

[jsh mee]

It probably is pods. I have amphipods that like to nibble on my zoas and palys. (Anyone who says they there aren't amphipods that will eat healthy zoas is wrong.) They won't kill big colonies, but if I put a new frag with just a few heads, and they decide to go after those ones, they can kill them. I lost several high end zoas like that, then I started putting new zoas frags on a raised frag rack for a while, and it hasnt been an issue.

Now if I notice a colony looks bothered or with little chew holes, I'll put a light on it at night, sure enough I'll find those stupid little bugs munching on the base of healthy polyps again. So I suck them out with a syringe, crush them and feed them to the palys. (Poetic justice) After a few nights the zoas will look fine again.

 

[John Gemmel]

I quit saying "these are my favorite " never fails to melt after I think that.. now let go check my tank..

 

[danschoenherr]

I too have never seen a colony "melt", but have gone through the nudibranchs and the dreaded brown death. I do have certain ones that I just can't seem to keep like Mary Janes, Salted Agaves and Oopa Loompas (which I will have to get some more from BoomCorals one of these days), but I also have others like Rainbow Incinerators and Rainbow Hornets growing like weeds. I don't know if we zoa/paly growers can actually have them all growing nicely or not. As for the pods you may be concerned about, do you have any wrasses or dragonets in your tank(s)? I've found those to help "clean" around my frags and colonies.

 

[pa1ntbru5h]

I can't say I've experienced any unexplained zoas melting. I've usually been able to see or discover the cause such as pox, "the brown stuff", etc. Have you looked really closely at them for signs of those kinds of things? Have you looked for pests like the nudis?

No signs of any pests but the pods themselves. No zoa spiders, no nudis, nothing.. No signs of pox either.
It usually goes a little something like this...
Healthy -> Closed and shrinking -> Spewing guts -> Melting and being eaten by pods -> Gone
And this happens quick! Over the course of just a couple days from start to finish.

You say your parameters are spot on. I don't doubt you but are you testing for things like ALK and CAL? I'm just wondering here.

Yessir. pH, salinity, Alk, Ca, Mg, NO3, PO4. All in line and within reason.
Checked across Hanna, Red Sea, and Salifert.
I run a Neptune DOS to keep Alk and Ca stable. So no major swings in either.

I too have never seen a colony "melt", but have gone through the nudibranchs and the dreaded brown death. I do have certain ones that I just can't seem to keep like Mary Janes, Salted Agaves and Oopa Loompas (which I will have to get some more from BoomCorals one of these days), but I also have others like Rainbow Incinerators and Rainbow Hornets growing like weeds. I don't know if we zoa/paly growers can actually have them all growing nicely or not. As for the pods you may be concerned about, do you have any wrasses or dragonets in your tank(s)? I've found those to help "clean" around my frags and colonies.

I had 14 polyps of Speckled Krakatoas that one day decided to start dying off. Lost all but 1 polyp. I was able to save that one polyp and it grew into 3 over the next month or two.. And just yesterday those 3 are now melting away.

I have a Mandarin Goby. I do see him hunting most the time, but I guess he can't even control the population! Need to add a wrasse next.

 

[jsh mee]

Mandarins typically won't eat amphipods. They usually go after smaller pods.

 

[DSC reef]

I've experienced the melting of colonies but it always came from chemistry swings. Tank is loaded with amphipods, even pretty large ones and I've never had them kill a zoa but they are quick to clean up a mess. Honestly, all the high tech stuff is cool but I truly believe there's some kind of swing going on that you/Neptune might be missing. Not saying your doing something wrong. I still manually dose and got Hannah and salifert testing equipment and since our reef has been set up from the last move we've been able to keep the chemistry very stable and this is the first time there hasn't been a melt in over a year.

 

[pa1ntbru5h]

I've experienced the melting of colonies but it always came from chemistry swings. Tank is loaded with amphipods, even pretty large ones and I've never had them kill a zoa but they are quick to clean up a mess. Honestly, all the high tech stuff is cool but I truly believe there's some kind of swing going on that you/Neptune might be missing. Not saying your doing something wrong. I still manually dose and got Hannah and salifert testing equipment and since our reef has been set up from the last move we've been able to keep the chemistry very stable and this is the first time there hasn't been a melt in over a year.

There's nothing really special about the DOS other than it automatically doses my prescribed amount over the course of the day. Which means it's able to keep my parameters stable throughout the day. Just for example.. it doses 2 mL every 15 minutes for 5 hours, amounting to 40 mL total. Instead of me manually dosing 40 mL in one go.
It doesn't automatically check Alk or Ca and dose accordingly.. I still manually do all the testing and adjust the dosage based on daily consumption. Also my tests are cross checked across different brands, so I'm pretty confident my tank parameters are stable.

Through all the head scratching.. The only conclusion I can come up with is that my tank is a low nutrient tank and its full of pods.
So maybe some strains of zoas don't like the low nutrients and get stressed, and then the pods come to clean up the mess.

I'll be doing two things to try to mitigate the issue...
1. Adding another wrasse to help control the pod population
2. Set up a separate tank that's higher in nutrients for zoa growout

 

[DSC reef]

I'm not sure what species of wrasse will actually eat amphipods but you can try to target feed the zoas. When the nutrients got to low I seemed to have success with reef roids since it's a very fine particle and oyster feast. Some zoas just do better than others though. Sounds like you have a solid plan.

 

[wish]

You need to get a wrasse or mandarin goby!
Also sounds like you might need more flow or
random flow from different angle.

 

[littlebigreef]

I've have a similar experience over the years. You're cruising along, everything is good and then BAM! Melt city. The frustrating thing is that sometimes it happens with established colonies for no discernible reason. I shy away from automation in all its forms so as to limit the variables affecting the tank. What's weirder is that I've had instances of specific strains of established zoas melt in different places in the tank (like all good zoa hoarders I frag out a second keeper colony asap). This while all the colonies around the affected colony keep on chugging right along. I don't have an explanation for it. I just do several large water changes, a Lugols dip, change the ferric oxide in the phosphate reactor and hope for the best.

I'm interested to hear what else people have to say.

 

[pa1ntbru5h]

You need to get a wrasse or mandarin goby!
Also sounds like you might need more flow or
random flow from different angle.

Already have a Mandarin Goby!
Also, I'm running a Gyre 130 on a 20 gal frag tank.. Plenty of flow.
Frag tank is plumbed into the same sump as my DT, so 80 gal total.

 

[dragonfish]

FOLLOWING

 

[|FATHOM|]

I too have had random zoas melt. It just happens sometimes. My parameters are fine and the I see a colony melting. What I do that has helped me keep a large variety of zoas is when I have a colony I make 2 frags. I place the same zoas in 3 different parts of the tank. That way if one melts I have two back ups I can frag from. I have experienced one colony melting while the other two from the same mother colony look healthy as can be

 

[reefergurl89]

I find if my salt fluctuates they don't do well

 

[GatorScott]

I find if my salt fluctuates they don't do well

Yep this.

Op, are you calibrating your refractometer with calibration fluid each time you test?

 

[pa1ntbru5h]

Yep this.

Op, are you calibrating your refractometer with calibration fluid each time you test?

Yessir! I have the normal refractometer and also the Milwaukee digital one to double check too. Both calibrated.

I've thought of everything I could. Even asked some pros for some advice and I haven't been able to really hone in on anything as the culprit.
I'm going to do a Triton test soon to see if there's anything in my tank I wouldn't normally test for.

Since I last posted, I've lost my frag of ASD Leprechauns and LC Lime Chili... *sigh*
While all my other zoas and palys grow like weeds..
Always the expensive ones that go.