Low alkalinity suggestion

[BluewaterLa]

Kalk has always raised and helped maintain my levels using the ato but I do always worry about the actual dose I am giving or how much. Sometimes my evaporation rate is high and sometimes low. Adding to my existing top off water can be tricky because after several times there is quite a bit left over in the bottom of the container and I just feel that I'm not actually sure of the concentration is anymore. Oh, and I have had my ato fail once.

The slurry that's left in the container isn't the product added to the tank.
The lime water that is made when mixing RoDi and kalk powder is the good stuff that holds the alk and calcium.
To avoid the issues with changing evaporation rates you could manually dose you kalk via drip method at night.
The reason for the "at night" is the affect on ph is higher with a drip than with auto top off method.
We must keep in mind that magnesium may have to be dosed in some tanks using kalk, depending on the values our salt mixes and how much and often we change water.
Hope this helps

 

[mcarroll]

Kalkwaser seems like the easiest route, as I already have a ATO. Two part, seems like a lot more work, more plugs which I don't have room for, and potentially not needed? Will kalkwaser get me where I want?

Kalk
Kalkwasser is cheap and easy, and I am a fan.

But it's not so simple because of the complications with pH....you can do real damage to the tank's chemistry by spiking the pH without even doing anything crazy - just drip too much kalk too quickly, which consumes the available CO2 in the water, which spikes the pH.

That's directly harmful or even lethal to a lot of critters, and, again, extremely bad for the tank's water chemistry.

So plenty of care is called for when using kalkwasser....for these and other reasons.

Most of the folks who advocate it watch their pH via a live reading from an electronic pH meter like this:

While you can take precautions such as slow-dripping, they aren't foolproof precautions....so you'd be wise to do the same and invest in at least a cheapie pH meter.

(Someday I will too.)

There are no such concerns with two-part.....even for DIY as long as you follow "recipe #2".

I advocate using kalkwasser to supplement two-part dosing - mostly to keep the costs of two-part down. (Two part *can* be so cheap that even this use stops making sense....DIY two-part can be *very very* cost effective in the short term.)

Two Part
Two-part is dead-simple.

It's easy as feeding your fish - especially since you already do testing and don't have a problem with it.

I manually dosed my SPS tank for something like six years with far fewer issues than most it seemed. (Not completely without issue.....but that's life in six years! ;))

Set up a pair or trio of DIY drippers like these...



...all you need are some wide-mouth plastic containers (or something! these are orange juice containers) and some airline and airline valves.

The valves pictured are the best I've found without spending a LOT more money. The ones that cost more aren't nearly as convenient tho. I spent a little of the money I saved on the valves on some elbows to cut back on crust formation between doses. ;)

(BTW, I just use the Ca dripper for Mg when needed....I never made a third. Might've been better to have three - not sure.)

I did finally get a doser - which has not been an experience without issues - last year, but I still use these drippers to make all the corrections.

I would stop obsessing over using an automated doser - you don't need to make that decision until much later down the road. You can still start using two-part REALLY EASILY right now. :)

I like and own a Hanna Alk Checker, but from my own experience I can imagine that you might want to also have a Salifert alk kit on hand for when you need to test more frequently. It's cheaper per test and at least for me is MUCH quicker per test.

I do recommend testing AT LEAST daily when you make big changes, or when you're just getting started. You'll know when you can start testing less often because the results will be predictable. :)

What should I do to raise and maintain my alk? Will just adding kalkwaser in my ATO raise it?

It may have been missed, but Randy told you baking soda early in the comments - I would definitely use baking soda for adjustments like this.

Get some plain calcium chloride (dry or solution) for making calcium adjustments too.

It may be a while before you need a Mg supplement if you're on a good water change schedule with a well-supplemented salt. (Some two-part supplements have some Mg in them, BTW.)

I would also acquire a two part kit from your LFS and start dosing that for maintenance - it shouldn't take much as the commercial two part formulas all tend to be very concentrated.

Just tested my water, magnesium is 1380, calcium 450 and alkalinity is 6.7. I did a five gallon change last night, so the water changes alone aren't enough to bring up my alk?

In theory you can do enough water changes to fix this, but it wouldn't be too practical.

At minimum you'd want to boost alkalinity at least part way up so it's in balance with your other tests.

When you do the fix:

1. Run a fresh alkalinity test
2. Use the Reef Chemistry Calculator to calculate your correct dose of baking soda.
3. Dose half of what it tells you.
4. Wait at least an hour or two, or maybe overnight is best.
5. Re-test.
6. Dose 100% of what the calculator tells you this time.
7. Wait at least an hour, or overnight if you can.
8. Now re-test all three parameters.
9. Decide if you want to do the rest of the "fix" with water changes. It should seem more reasonable now.

Just $0.02 - hope it helps!

 

[Jakepen]

T

Kalk
Kalkwasser is cheap and easy, and I am a fan.

But it's not so simple because of the complications with pH....you can do real damage to the tank's chemistry by spiking the pH without even doing anything crazy - just drip too much kalk too quickly, which consumes the available CO2 in the water, which spikes the pH.

That's directly harmful or even lethal to a lot of critters, and, again, extremely bad for the tank's water chemistry.

So plenty of care is called for when using kalkwasser....for these and other reasons.

Most of the folks who advocate it watch their pH via a live reading from an electronic pH meter like this:

While you can take precautions such as slow-dripping, they aren't foolproof precautions....so you'd be wise to do the same and invest in at least a cheapie pH meter.

(Someday I will too.)

There are no such concerns with two-part.....even for DIY as long as you follow "recipe #2".

I advocate using kalkwasser to supplement two-part dosing - mostly to keep the costs of two-part down. (Two part *can* be so cheap that even this use stops making sense....DIY two-part can be *very very* cost effective in the short term.)

Two Part
Two-part is dead-simple.

It's easy as feeding your fish - especially since you already do testing and don't have a problem with it.

I manually dosed my SPS tank for something like six years with far fewer issues than most it seemed. (Not completely without issue.....but that's life in six years! ;))

Set up a pair or trio of DIY drippers like these...



...all you need are some wide-mouth plastic containers (or something! these are orange juice containers) and some airline and airline valves.

The valves pictured are the best I've found without spending a LOT more money. The ones that cost more aren't nearly as convenient tho. I spent a little of the money I saved on the valves on some elbows to cut back on crust formation between doses. ;)

(BTW, I just use the Ca dripper for Mg when needed....I never made a third. Might've been better to have three - not sure.)

I did finally get a doser - which has not been an experience without issues - last year, but I still use these drippers to make all the corrections.

I would stop obsessing over using an automated doser - you don't need to make that decision until much later down the road. You can still start using two-part REALLY EASILY right now. :)

I like and own a Hanna Alk Checker, but from my own experience I can imagine that you might want to also have a Salifert alk kit on hand for when you need to test more frequently. It's cheaper per test and at least for me is MUCH quicker per test.

I do recommend testing AT LEAST daily when you make big changes, or when you're just getting started. You'll know when you can start testing less often because the results will be predictable. :)



It may have been missed, but Randy told you baking soda early in the comments - I would definitely use baking soda for adjustments like this.

Get some plain calcium chloride (dry or solution) for making calcium adjustments too.

It may be a while before you need a Mg supplement if you're on a good water change schedule with a well-supplemented salt. (Some two-part supplements have some Mg in them, BTW.)

I would also acquire a two part kit from your LFS and start dosing that for maintenance - it shouldn't take much as the commercial two part formulas all tend to be very concentrated.



In theory you can do enough water changes to fix this, but it wouldn't be too practical.

At minimum you'd want to boost alkalinity at least part way up so it's in balance with your other tests.

When you do the fix:

1. Run a fresh alkalinity test
2. Use the Reef Chemistry Calculator to calculate your correct dose of baking soda.
3. Dose half of what it tells you.
4. Wait at least an hour or two, or maybe overnight is best.
5. Re-test.
6. Dose 100% of what the calculator tells you this time.
7. Wait at least an hour, or overnight if you can.
8. Now re-test all three parameters.
9. Decide if you want to do the rest of the "fix" with water changes. It should seem more reasonable now.

Just $0.02 - hope it helps!

Thank you for taking the time to type all of this. It seems a bit more clear now. When dosing with banking soda, that is just a temporary fix correct? If I dose it up to 8.5, in a week it could be back to 6.5? If that's the case, why even dose baking soda, and why not skip right to two part, or vice versa. Banking soda is cheaper and more readily available to me than two part, so why not just dose regularly with that? And I know I've asked this a few times, and I should probably just read everything to find my answer; if I decide to dose with kalkwaser, do I need to raise my dkh with another additive prior to maintaining it with the kalk? I've heard mixed reviews on kalkwasers abilities to raise dkh, rather than simply maintain it.

 

[mcarroll]

You have two dosing plans, even if you don't know it.

One plan is for "maintenance" where you add enough calcium, alkalinity and magnesium (maybe more) to account for all uses in the tank.

The second plan is for "adjustments". You use this whenever you find that one or more parameters are low in spite of your maintenance doses.

Two part uses "descreet compoentents" for the three parameters it corrects for, so technically you can use two part to make adjustments....but you don't want to.

This is what seems confusing.

You buy two-part sets with the intention (and obligation) to dose equal parts of them.

Instead, it makes more sense for you to have separate "discreet components" for adjustments. Most supplement makers have supporting products for this purpose. Most often, that is (or can be) plain calcium chloride and baking soda. The magnesium formulations are only slightly more complex, but harder to make and needed in MUCH smaller volumes than calcium or alkalinity...I kept using commercial Mg formulations until recently.

Kalkwasser, by contrast, is calcium and alkalinity together. You can't use kalk to adjust one of those parameters without also adjusting the other. So even if you got rid of the pH issues (which is possible) kalkwasser is still no good for adjustments.....only maintenance. (Which it's really good for.)

I would save worrying about kalkwasser until later.

Give yourself time to fully understand its use and take the easy way out.....dose two-part by hand, using manual drippers.

Honestly, you might even get away without even using a dripper here at the beginning...doses may be small enough that you don't mind just pouring them in very slowly.

(Kent does make some nice ready-made drippers in 1 liter and 5 gallon sizes, btw....Aqua Medic's AquaBreed seemed nice if they still make it.)

 

[Jakepen]

You have two dosing plans, even if you don't know it.

One plan is for "maintenance" where you add enough calcium, alkalinity and magnesium (maybe more) to account for all uses in the tank.

The second plan is for "adjustments". You use this whenever you find that one or more parameters are low in spite of your maintenance doses.

Two part uses "descreet compoentents" for the three parameters it corrects for, so technically you can use two part to make adjustments....but you don't want to.

This is what seems confusing.

You buy two-part sets with the intention (and obligation) to dose equal parts of them.

Instead, it makes more sense for you to have separate "discreet components" for adjustments. Most supplement makers have supporting products for this purpose. Most often, that is (or can be) plain calcium chloride and baking soda. The magnesium formulations are only slightly more complex, but harder to make and needed in MUCH smaller volumes than calcium or alkalinity...I kept using commercial Mg formulations until recently.

Kalkwasser, by contrast, is calcium and alkalinity together. You can't use kalk to adjust one of those parameters without also adjusting the other. So even if you got rid of the pH issues (which is possible) kalkwasser is still no good for adjustments.....only maintenance. (Which it's really good for.)

I would save worrying about kalkwasser until later.

Give yourself time to fully understand its use and take the easy way out.....dose two-part by hand, using manual drippers.

Honestly, you might even get away without even using a dripper here at the beginning...doses may be small enough that you don't mind just pouring them in very slowly.

(Kent does make some nice ready-made drippers in 1 liter and 5 gallon sizes, btw....Aqua Medic's AquaBreed seemed nice if they still make it.)

Okay, so try hand dosing for a while. Than do I have to do that daily? I just looked at Kent, when it says buffer; does that refer to alkalinity?

 

[mcarroll]

Test daily....let that be your guide.

I honestly can't remember if I had to dose every single day at the beginning or not. Seems like not because I was doing enough water changes.

Whether that works for you might depend on a lot of things anyway...so like I said, test and dose based on that.

You can determine whether to more/bigger water changes the same way. I did that and I guess when I got up to 20% weekly water changes is when I decided to start dosing.

$0.02

 

[Jakepen]

Test daily....let that be your guide.

I honestly can't remember if I had to dose every single day at the beginning or not. Seems like not because I was doing enough water changes.

Whether that works for you might depend on a lot of things anyway...so like I said, test and dose based on that.

You can determine whether to more/bigger water changes the same way. I did that and I guess when I got up to 20% weekly water changes is when I decided to start dosing.

$0.02

Okay, thanks again. Do I only need to dose alkalinity than, at least at this time? Will dosing alk raise or lower my calcium

 

[mcarroll]

Do that list I put in post #42

At the end you'll assess whether Ca and Mg have changed. More than likely, once alkalinity is in range, you'll find that the others are low as well.

 

[Jakepen]

Do that list I put in post #42

At the end you'll assess whether Ca and Mg have changed. More than likely, once alkalinity is in range, you'll find that the others are low as well.

Okay, so your saying to dose baking soda to bring up my alk, than check my other levels and decide if I should implement two part? Or just jump right to two part.

 

[mcarroll]

Yes, use baking soda first. (You might find that you have to adjust Ca and Mg too after you are done.)

Once your water parameters are correct, if water changes aren't keeping your parameters in check, and you aren't willing/able to do more/bigger water changes, then yes I would start dosing two part.

You might be testing quite a bit over the next week or two. (Or more, depending how things go.) :cool:

 

[ebrinsfield]

I test all my parameters every Sunday, and my tank is 5 years old. If my dkh drops to 7.2 and I like to keep mine at 8 then I add soda ash to the ATO.

 

[ryecoon]

I like he Hanna and am waiting for there new alk one. But finger prints on bottle can throw them off. I have phosphate one I love it. But every now and then I check it agenst another test kit

I heard there is a recall on the new dkh Hanna checkers.

 

[Jakepen]

Yes, use baking soda first. (You might find that you have to adjust Ca and Mg too after you are done.)

Once your water parameters are correct, if water changes aren't keeping your parameters in check, and you aren't willing/able to do more/bigger water changes, then yes I would start dosing two part.

You might be testing quite a bit over the next week or two. (Or more, depending how things go.) :cool:

Well I bought some baking soda, and looking on the back I don't see any dosing measurements to raise alkalinity? Just kidding. Seriously though, is there a thread with info on raising alk with baking soda, so I know how to and how much to dose?