Low alkalinity. Wits end.

StevenS01

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So I’m starting to see why some people get out of the hobby. This is aggravating, so I’ll start from the beginning.

I’m going over my logs from the beginning of December, and I’m starting to realize my alkalinity issue has existed for a while. I will post my log at the end of this thread.

When January rolled around, I switched to using red seas foundation program, and for a while I was able to achieve alkalinity levels above 8 while maintaining normal calcium levels of around 427. I have always been pushing a little higher alkalinity so that I have that extra breathing room. Towards the middle of January, my alkalinity has been falling, around 5.9 to mid 6, although my calcium remained normal. Ever since then, I have been trying to raise my alkalinity, which lasts normally a day, and my calcium skyrockets to around 476-500.

Having trouble with balancing the Red Sea alkalinity and calcium ratio, I decided I was going to switch back to BRS 2 part. I switched three days ago when my calcium tested at 535, and alk was 5.8.

I did a 30% water change (consisting of some left over reef crystals and Red Sea coral pro). Post water change levels read 6.9/476/1260. At this point I added 2 part to raise my alk and mag, when I tested again at 10pm, alk/cal/mag read 7.3/467/1300.

Next day, my levels measure 6.5/467/1300. AT THIS POINT... I remember why I switched back to 2 part. When I first used it, I never dosed in equal amounts which is why I feel I was unsuccessful. After reading Randy’s article on low alk, high calcium, I figured “I need to dose in equal amounts.” So I dosed 8.6 for both solutions, which is the BRS recommended .2 mL per gallon (and what my dosers were set for). Later that evening, numbers measured out at 6.1/504/1350. Again, I added 2 part to correct the alkalinity to raise it 1.4 dKH (just Alk).
I also raised my doser amounts to 12 mL for both alk/cal, which dose at 12:00am and 2am.

This morning, my numbers read 6.3/600/1400.

I really don’t know what else to do. I have had two moments where I stop testing and evaluate my levels. The first time was early last year, and then I realized it took about 50mL of BRS 2 Part to keep my levels, mainly alk, just above normal range. The second was a few weeks ago, when I first posted about my issue. It was recommended I maintain my alk at 7, with sodium bicarbonate, which took about 120 mL a day to barely keep it above 7.

There has to be something I am missing, this has been an endless battle for months. I have a Red Sea reefer 170, mixed with softies, mainly LPS, and a few SPS frags. I am using Hanna Checkers for calcium and alkalinity, and Red Sea for magnesium testing. I switched to coral pro salt mainly for the high alk, figuring it would help my problem, but I may switch to just the Red Sea salt since it’s a little more balanced.

Help me guys! Much appreciated. Sorry for the unorganized second attachment
 
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saltyfilmfolks

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It’s feeling like your tests are off.
You’ve confirmed the alk of some fresh mixed RSCP?


The 50 ml of two part. Is that daily?

What’s the target alk?
 
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StevenS01

StevenS01

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It’s feeling like your tests are off.
You’ve confirmed the alk of some fresh mixed RSCP?


The 50 ml of two part. Is that daily?

What’s the target alk?

The 50 mL was used daily yes. I tested the alk when I did my last 30% water change, I diluted the RSCP with 5 gallons of reef crystals just so the calcium wasn’t super high. 10 gal of RSCP/ 5 reef crystals measured at 9.5 dKH
 

saltyfilmfolks

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The 50 mL was used daily yes. I tested the alk when I did my last 30% water change, I diluted the RSCP with 5 gallons of reef crystals just so the calcium wasn’t super high. 10 gal of RSCP/ 5 reef crystals measured at 9.5 dKH
I’d try it without mixing, but the stated alk of both of those salts is much higher. RCSP at 12.5 and RC at 13.
 

jasonrusso

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Am I missing something, why don't you just dose the alkalinity buffer? Why are you raising the calcium?
 

MnFish1

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maybe try:

1. Divide the doses up more (i.e. more doses/day).
2. Make sure there is no possibility of mixing (of the 2 part solutions) (i.e. place the 2 part exits (the tubing) far apart in your sump (from each other))
3. Make sure the flow rate where you put your 2 part in is high.
4. I use 100cc of BRS CACL2 Sodium carbonate daily - so maybe you just need more.
5. Reverify your MG.

If your corals are doing well - and you aren't precipitating, just keep slowly increasing the dose rather than testing all the time.. I tried it the way you are trying to do it - and it never worked. (i.e. dosing pump and intermittent dosing if alk dropped). If it drops now, I just increase the dosing and recheck in 2-3 days. I also have my pumps set to dose every hour on a staggered schedule. Ex: Ca 00:00, Alk 00:30, Ca 01:00, Alk 0130 PM. If the tests are correct, its either precipitating somewhere or you aren't using enough. IMHO
 
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JerseyReefer

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From what I’ve been reading more and more, when using 2 part, regardless of calcium levels, dosing in equal amounts is supposed to help level out the parameters.

No what I understood. Use only one part to get both Alk and Ca at the levels you want. Then dose equally to keep at that level. I dosed Alk alone for a while to elevate and Ca stayed stable. Got my Alk up from 7.7 to 8.5 and kept Ca at 440. After that it was just trying to figure out the equal part dosing schedule from there to keep it stable.
 

jasonrusso

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From what I’ve been reading more and more, when using 2 part, regardless of calcium levels, dosing in equal amounts is supposed to help level out the parameters.
Maybe I should research it more, but I just dose what is needed. If my alk is 7.5, I put in alk, if calcium is at 390, I put in calcium.

If the calcium is ready at 500, I don't see how adding more is going to lower the calcium to match the alk.
 
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StevenS01

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maybe try:

1. Divide the doses up more (i.e. more doses/day).
2. Make sure there is no possibility of mixing (i.e. place the 2 part exit far apart in your sump)
3. Make sure the flow rate where you put your 2 part in is high.
4. I use 100cc of BRS CACL2 Sodium carbonate daily - so maybe you just need more.
5. Reverify your MG.

If your corals are doing well - and you aren't precipitating, just keep slowly increasing the dose rather than testing all the time.. I tried it the way you are trying to do it - and it never worked. (i.e. dosing pump and intermittent dosing if alk dropped). If it drops now, I just increase the dosing and recheck in 2-3 days. I also have my pumps set to dose every hour on a staggered schedule. Ex: Ca 00:00, Alk 00:30, Ca 01:00, Alk 0130 PM. If the tests are correct, its either precipitating somewhere or you aren't using enough. IMHO

When I do that, I feel like I’m adding more alkalinity than I’m supposed to. A month ago I was up to 150 mL of Red Sea alkalinity additive a day, and I was BARELY above 7. The thing I’m worried about is that I’m going to fall into the pattern of dosing a bunch of alkalinity yet again.
 

MnFish1

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When I do that, I feel like I’m adding more alkalinity than I’m supposed to. A month ago I was up to 150 mL of Red Sea alkalinity additive a day, and I was BARELY above 7. The thing I’m worried about is that I’m going to fall into the pattern of dosing a bunch of alkalinity yet again.

When I read your post at first I thought you meant you had a 170 gallon tank (not a 40 gallon or so tank). I dont know the concentration of the Red Sea chemicals. I use the Bulk reef Supply chemicals. So the cc/day might not be the same. If your alk is precipitating - you can add a gallon a day and the alk wont increase (but the Ca will fluctuate if you're not adding it/enough of it).
 

MnFish1

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When I do that, I feel like I’m adding more alkalinity than I’m supposed to. A month ago I was up to 150 mL of Red Sea alkalinity additive a day, and I was BARELY above 7. The thing I’m worried about is that I’m going to fall into the pattern of dosing a bunch of alkalinity yet again.

By the way, I dont know what you mean by 'when I do that'. Dont know what 'that' refers to above.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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I’d say your test is off.
If the two fresh mixed salts are 9.5 rather than 13 as they should be, I’d assume your alk in the tank right now is 11 not 7.
 

jasonrusso

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When I do that, I feel like I’m adding more alkalinity than I’m supposed to. A month ago I was up to 150 mL of Red Sea alkalinity additive a day, and I was BARELY above 7. The thing I’m worried about is that I’m going to fall into the pattern of dosing a bunch of alkalinity yet again.
I think you are over thinking this. If everything is growing then don't sweat it. Make sure the test is correct (I have 2 tests and if something seems off, I verify it) and just dose what is needed to get to the desired level.

The elements get used up at different rates. Go by your testing results, not what you expect to see.
 

creas

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Do you run Phosban at all? That can lower alk. I always have to adjust my dosing when I run Phosban.
 
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StevenS01

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I think you are over thinking this. If everything is growing then don't sweat it. Make sure the test is correct (I have 2 tests and if something seems off, I verify it) and just dose what is needed to get to the desired level.

The elements get used up at different rates. Go by your testing results, not what you expect to see.

I very well could be overthinking this. When I read about individuals who are dumping tons and tons of carbonate into their tank and their numbers don’t match up for what they’re adding, it makes me take a step back. Then I read about individuals who then start adding equal parts, even though their calcium is out of normal range, and their numbers level out.
 

jasonrusso

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I very well could be overthinking this. When I read about individuals who are dumping tons and tons of carbonate into their tank and their numbers don’t match up for what they’re adding, it makes me take a step back. Then I read about individuals who then start adding equal parts, even though their calcium is out of normal range, and their numbers level out.
Just make sure your mag is correct. The magnesium prevents precipitation which could cause weird levels. If mag is around 1300-1400 you should be good to go.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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This is the go to article on balancing.

It’s also why I don’t dose mag.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

In short , organisisms use the 3 minerals in balance. The 3 don’t have to be in balance to use them. That just have to be there. And not limited.
 

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