Low alkalinity. Wits end.

[jasonrusso]

My last measurement was 1400, so a little high.

Should be fine

 

[StevenS01]

Do you run Phosban at all? That can lower alk. I always have to adjust my dosing when I run Phosban.

I don’t use anything like that, I have an ATS for my system.

 

[StevenS01]

By the way, I dont know what you mean by 'when I do that'. Dont know what 'that' refers to above.

When I do “that,” I mean adding more and more alkalinity. And yes it’s a 43 Gallon system, which just baffles me because I didn’t imagine such a small tank can consume so much.

That’s why I switched back to the BRS 2 part because it seems much more basic. This question seems real stupid, but when my calcium skyrockets, should I not add any? You said that calcium fluctuates when none, or not enough is added. I keep reading that by not adding calcium, that contributes to the problem.

 

[MnFish1]

I’d say your test is off.
If the two fresh mixed salts are 9.5 rather than 13 as they should be, I’d assume your alk in the tank right now is 11 not 7.

The coral pro salt mixes to 12 dkh (11.8-12.2) according to the Red Sea site(unless you are talking about a different mix)? That also goes up or down depending on the salinity to which it was mixed. The Hannah checker itself is +- .3 dkh - so depending on the salinity he mixed it to, his meter might not be that far off (especially , as you stated, mixing the 2 salts together could easily cause error - especially mixing a high alk and high Ca salt. )

 

[MnFish1]

This is the go to article on balancing.

It’s also why I don’t dose mag.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

In short , organisisms use the 3 minerals in balance. The 3 don’t have to be in balance to use them. That just have to be there. And not limited.

That is a great article - it does say aim to keep the Mg>1300 which his certainly is. lol

 

[MnFish1]

Randy Holmes Farley wrote an article that explains what to do in the various situations when dosing 2 part. Im not sure - but it may be discussed in the article saltyfilmfolks just posted.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The coral pro salt mixes to 12 dkh (11.8-12.2) according to the Red Sea site(unless you are talking about a different mix)? That also goes up or down depending on the salinity to which it was mixed. The Hannah checker itself is +- .3 dkh - so depending on the salinity he mixed it to, his meter might not be that far off (especially , as you stated, mixing the 2 salts together could easily cause error - especially mixing a high alk and high Ca salt. )

Understood.

I would assume the salinity was correct for a reef and the temp was a consideration. But an error that large should be either imo.

A 12alk salt + a 12 alk salt should 12.
The op is getting 9.

 

[MnFish1]

When I do “that,” I mean adding more and more alkalinity. And yes it’s a 43 Gallon system, which just baffles me because I didn’t imagine such a small tank can consume so much.

That’s why I switched back to the BRS 2 part because it seems much more basic. This question seems real stupid, but when my calcium skyrockets, should I not add any? You said that calcium fluctuates when none, or not enough is added. I keep reading that by not adding calcium, that contributes to the problem.

I dose equal amounts (according to the BRS recipe) and the Ca has never been a problem (i.e. too high). also in the Article by @Randy Holmes-Farley he also mentions that its hard to 'over-dose' 2 part when you do it this way because the excess precipitates out. (At least I think thats what he said) - hopefully he will 'weigh in'

 

[jasonrusso]

Watch this video. It does a great job at explaining the way the chemistry happens and the role of Mg.

 

[StevenS01]

Understood.

I would assume the salinity was correct for a reef and the temp was a consideration. But an error that large should be either imo.

A 12alk salt + a 12 alk salt should 12.
The op is getting 9.

I’ve read this article many times. It always has an underlying solution: correct the dKH, which I do, but the next day it’s down again. I’ll retest the dKH of the tank and post in a sec.

 

[MnFish1]

Understood.

I would assume the salinity was correct for a reef and the temp was a consideration. But an error that large should be either imo.

A 12alk salt + a 12 alk salt should 12.
The op is getting 9.

He mixed 2 mixes together one with a higher Ca (as you already said) - you cant tell anything from those numbers. Firstly, were both 'mixes' mixed in their buckets, etc etc etc - there are too many variables to 'guess'.
Secondly, He measured 9.5 (which could be 9.3 - 9.8) and the salt could mix to 11.5-12.5) - both including the possible errors from the Hanna checker. Im basically agreeing with you - that he cant interpret his original tests with the 2 salts mixed.

 

[cmcoker]

Is your refractometer recently calibrated?

If so, I would collect enough water to run your tests and take a sample to the lfs, hopefully one that uses something other than API test kits, and have them test. Compare.

Red Sea magnesium has a reputation for reading falsely high, the reviews on the hannah calcium checker seem to indicate it also has a tendency to read high.

How is your heater looking? Any deposits building up?

Hope you get it sorted sounds frustrating.

 

[MnFish1]

Also interesting If the instructions below weren't followed, also cant rely on the test on the freshly mixed salt - - according to the instructions:

1. Prepare the quantities of salt and water for the desired salinity according to the chart.
   
   
2. Use reverse osmosis (RO) water at approximately 20°C/68°F. Always add the salt to the water.
   
   
3. Mix vigorously (without aeration) for 0.5 - 2 hours,
   until all of the salt is dissolved and pH has stabilized
   to 8.2-8.4. DO NOT mix for more than 4 hours
   
   
4. Raise the water temp to 25°C/77°F and measure the s.g./
   salinity with an accurate hydrometer/ refractometer. Add salt or water as necessary to achieve the desired parameters.
   

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I’ve read this article many times. It always has an underlying solution: correct the dKH, which I do, but the next day it’s down again. I’ll retest the dKH of the tank and post in a sec.

I’d get fresh mixed to confirm.

 

[StevenS01]

He mixed 2 mixes together one with a higher Ca (as you already said) - you cant tell anything from those numbers. Firstly, were both 'mixes' mixed in their buckets, etc etc etc - there are too many variables to 'guess'.
Secondly, He measured 9.5 (which could be 9.3 - 9.8) and the salt could mix to 11.5-12.5) - both including the possible errors from the Hanna checker. Im basically agreeing with you - that he cant interpret his original tests with the 2 salts mixed.

My fault. My intentions were to dilute the RSCP because it has a ton of calcium, and the tank was pretty high in ca. Current alk is 7.7 after adding 50 mL of solution this morning

 

[MnFish1]

I’d get fresh mixed to confirm.

The one reason that I am not sure that its the 'test kits' is that he is also adding alk - yet its dropping overnight. Its not like the test is consistently x dkh higher or lower than it should be (unless the checker is indeed completely 'broken'. ). He is saying 'Im adding alk - but the dkh is only going up temporarily'. This suggests that something is going on in the tank itself.

The new Hanna Ca checkers are better than the old one - if OP is using the old one without the pipette it could be the Ca is not accurate either

 

[jasonrusso]

My fault. My intentions were to dilute the RSCP because it has a ton of calcium, and the tank was pretty high in ca. Current alk is 7.7 after adding 50 mL of solution this morning

What was it before? What are you using for alk?

 

[StevenS01]

Is your refractometer recently calibrated?

If so, I would collect enough water to run your tests and take a sample to the lfs, hopefully one that uses something other than API test kits, and have them test. Compare.

Red Sea magnesium has a reputation for reading falsely high, the reviews on the hannah calcium checker seem to indicate it also has a tendency to read high.

How is your heater looking? Any deposits building up?

Hope you get it sorted sounds frustrating.

Heater is looking pretty good, I check it pretty often. It’s been a bit since I’ve calibrated the refractometer, but I’ll recheck it. My LFS unfortunately only uses API. Thanks man.

 

[StevenS01]

Also interesting If the instructions below weren't followed, also cant rely on the test on the freshly mixed salt - - according to the instructions:

1. Prepare the quantities of salt and water for the desired salinity according to the chart.
   
   
2. Use reverse osmosis (RO) water at approximately 20°C/68°F. Always add the salt to the water.
   
   
3. Mix vigorously (without aeration) for 0.5 - 2 hours,
   until all of the salt is dissolved and pH has stabilized
   to 8.2-8.4. DO NOT mix for more than 4 hours
   
   
4. Raise the water temp to 25°C/77°F and measure the s.g./
   salinity with an accurate hydrometer/ refractometer. Add salt or water as necessary to achieve the desired parameters.
   

I think the only thing I haven’t done, is mixing the salt prior to heating. I’ll usually take a big tub, toss a powerhead with a heater in there, and that’s how I mix it as I slowly heat it to 77 degrees

 

[MnFish1]

From the Article By Randy:

Let’s first look at how calcium and alkalinity are consumed in reef tanks.

Calcium is largely consumed by formation of calcium carbonate. This happens biologically3 in corals, coralline algae, mollusks, and a variety of other organisms. It can also happen abiotically1, such as by precipitation on heaters and pump impellers. In a reef tank with rapidly calcifying organisms, this effect will so predominate any other calcium export mechanism, that no others need be considered for this purpose.

Alkalinity2 for our purposes here is comprised of bicarbonate and carbonate. The vast majority of alkalinity depletion in most tanks also comes about by the precipitation of calcium carbonate, as described above. In this process, as alkalinity is depleted by 1 meq/L, calcium will be depleted by 20 ppm. There are some other processes that can lead to alkalinity depletion, including partial cycling of nitrogen (from organic compounds to nitrate and no further) and the incorporation of magnesium into calcium carbonate, but these are generally much less important than calcification.

Consequently, alkalinity depletion in most tanks (especially in short time frames) is tightly coupled to calcium depletion, and if one supplements calcium and alkalinity in proportions equal to those that they are being removed, then it is MUCH less likely that calcium and alkalinity will become imbalanced4 and thereby trickier to correct. That is, the only problems that you will encounter are those in zones 1 and 2 (not enough or too much of these additives). Using a balanced scheme, you should not ever end up in zones 3 and 4, where you have substantial imbalances between calcium and alkalinity.

Additionally, overdosing of balanced additives typically seems to simply result in an increase in the amount of calcium carbonate that is being precipitated in the tank, and does not, in general, lead to substantial increases in dissolved calcium and alkalinity. This fortunate circumstance comes about largely because of the supersaturation of calcium carbonate1 in reef tanks.