Low kh, high can and mg, All for Reef

[Bryan68]

I've been dosing TM All for Reef due to dropping kh but my ca and mg continue to elevate while kh consistently drops.
Kh 6.3
Ca 480
Mg 1600
Nitrate 30 ppm
Po4 .61
1.026
Coraline is everywhere, but I only have soft corals.
Should I only be dosing kh? I was under the impression that all for reef would be the way to maintain consistency.
Thank you in advance!

 

[HuduVudu]

Your demands are very low. IMO you don't really need to dose. Better to dose Kalkwasser for your needs.

 

[Bryan68]

Your demands are very low. IMO you don't really need to dose. Better to dose Kalkwasser for your needs.

I guess that's what confuses me, I agree I have no reason to dose, but do I just let kh continue to drop?

 

[HuduVudu]

I guess that's what confuses me, I agree I have no reason to dose, but do I just let kh continue to drop?

No, because your biological filter does consume Alk. You do need to do things to bring the Alk back up. Most people just do water changes (which you NEED to do because of your dosing) to keep their Alk in line. Kalkwasser adds both Ca and Alk so it is balanced. People don't use it usually for various reasons, but many of those can be corrected with equipment. It is pricey but a Kalk stirrer (reactor) with a dosing pump makes this whole process a stupid easy.

My 2 cents.

 

[Bryan68]

No, because your biological filter does consume Alk. You do need to do things to bring the Alk back up. Most people just do water changes (which you NEED to do because of your dosing) to keep their Alk in line. Kalkwasser adds both Ca and Alk so it is balanced. People don't use it usually for various reasons, but many of those can be corrected with equipment. It is pricey but a Kalk stirrer (reactor) with a dosing pump makes this whole process a stupid easy.

My 2 cents.

Ok, thanks. I change about 17% water every two weeks.
So if my biological filter is using kh, will kalkwasser continue to raise ca while the kh continues to be used? Sorry for all the questions, but this is why I'm so confused, lol

 

[SoAg Reefer]

I use all for reef as well. It is meant to control the levels of KH, CA, Mag and trace NOT increase one of them. You should get your levels where you want them THEN dose AFR to maintain them. I used Red Sea to get KH, CA and Mag steady where I want them and kept them there for a week. My tank is heavy SPS so a bit different then yours but the chemistry is the same just different amounts needed due to use. You then start AFR per their instructions and adjust daily as needed based on consumption. AFR is awesome when used as designed but if you increase dosage to up ur KH all levels rise.

Stop dosing AFR, dose a KH supplement like Red SEA KH over a week or so to get ur KH where you want it. Let the CA and Mag drop on their own until you get to where you want them. If that happens before you reach ur KH goal dose ca and Mag to maintain them. Once you have all 3 where you are happy you can either start AFR then and adjust until consumption equals dosing or maintain the levels for a week with other dosing to understand the consumption. Either way is fine.

 

[HuduVudu]

Ok, thanks. I change about 17% water every two weeks.
So if my biological filter is using kh, will kalkwasser continue to raise ca while the kh continues to be used? Sorry for all the questions, but this is why I'm so confused, lol

Yes but your water changes will more than be able to handle it plus you will get the added benefit of a higher PH and phosphate precipitation.

I have to say ... another very viable option for you is to just do water changes. You are doing solid water changes and this should be enough to keep your Alk in line.

Also because of the creatures in your tank you don't need high levels of Alk. People that have high demand tanks keep their Alk high because it easier for them to catch, declining Alk conditions and correct them before real damage occurs. You are very unlikely to have that.

 

[Bryan68]

Thanks everyone, as always, I appreciate the help and knowledge share!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just to clarify for a fuller understanding, the nitrogen cycle will only deplete alkalinity if nitrate is rising. It depletes about 2.3 dKH for each rise in nitrate of 50 ppm.

if nitrate is falling due to consumption, that adds back the 2.3 dKH per 50 ppm consumed.

If nitrate is steady and neither rising nor falling, there is no effect of the nitrogen cycle on alkalinity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks everyone, as always, I appreciate the help and knowledge share!

I think there may be a different answer.

The folks from Tropic Marin claim that the formate in All for Reef will not be broken down and detected by a normal alkalinity kit, but only used directly by corals.

i do not tend to believe this as emphatically as they claim, but in your case, you would be dosing formate which is not detected by a kit, and not seeing the alkalinity it could provide if a coral used it. On the other hand, the calcium in it is immediately detectable.

I might suggest using a different product for a bit to get a handle in the tank alkalinity needs.

 

[Bryan68]

Thank you #Randy Holmes-Farley, that really helped my understanding of what I'm seeing!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you #Randy Holmes-Farley, that really helped my understanding of what I'm seeing!!

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[ichthyoid]

I think there may be a different answer.

The folks from Tropic Marin claim that the formate in All for Reef will not be broken down and detected by a normal alkalinity kit, but only used directly by corals.

i do not tend to believe this as emphatically as they claim, but in your case, you would be dosing formate which is not detected by a kit, and not seeing the alkalinity it could provide if a coral used it. On the other hand, the calcium in it is immediately detectable.

I might suggest using a different product for a bit to get a handle in the tank alkalinity needs.

I believe that in this situation TM recommends dosing NP-Bacto-Balance, which is an organic carbon source to help drive N&P down bacterially.

Doing so, and getting down to say 5ppm Nitrate, should yield ~1.65 dKh and put him back at ~8, yes?

That said, it may be easier to do water changes, to get back to ‘normal’.

Then if AFR is to be continued, I believe that Lou Ekus suggests starting at 1/4 dosage and go from there gradually.