Lowering phosphates naturally and feeding routine. LONG

[PPBlimpy]

Need some suggestions and ideas.

This will be LONG - I try to include any and all relevant info and history that I can think of to help with people having to ask a bunch of different ?s.

Couple friends think I am nutty for what I am doing.
Redsea S1000 G2
System is 262g mixed reef(no sps). Always ran high nutrients.

Tank crashed a couple months back and lost most my corals and 50BTA. Still don’t know exactly why but have my theory.

Would like to transition to a more LPS and SPS dom tank, especially since I have no more BTA

6 med-large tangs, foxface, pair of clowns and a 7” porcupine puffer.

Skimmer is a k1-200 ice cap that pulls mud out- works very well, have to empty every 3 days

Old Feeding schedule
Daily -3 large pinches of new life marine pellet
1 sheet of Amazon Nori
2 frozen cubes mysis or brine
Every other day
- 1 large raw shrimp (for the puffer)

I am trying to slowly- naturally lower my nitrates and phosphates. I was running GFO for a while and it was all lover the place and stressing my corals etc.

6 weeks ago my tank was at 75nitrate and 1.16 phos. This was fairly normal for the past year except when running gfo, it would bounce from .8 to 1.1

4 weeks ago I extended my light cycle by 2 hours, from 10->12 hrs in hope to grow more algea on the glass and rocks. Goal was to grow more algea, to help use up some nutrients and Let the herbivores graze more and allow me to reduce how much I feed daily.

Every day that I don’t feed the raw shrimp I turn off my wave makers, scrape the glass and let the fish eat the algea that comes off the glass prior to feeding them their pellets. And then 20 min after feeding I clean out the filter gloss from my sump, trying to remove anything that will just break down.

Also started feeding less

New Feeding schedule
Daily -2 large pinches of new life marine pellet
1- frozen cubes mysis or brine
Every other day
- 1 large raw shrimp (for the puffer)
- 1 sheet Amazon nori
- 1 cube mysis/brine opposite or shrimp

These to changes seem to be working.
Tested last night and nitrates are at 40.7 phosphates at 1.05

I have not been doing regular water changes. That will help for sure and finally finishing my mixing station and hoping that helps ease the burden. Will eventually start doing 2g daily WC also.

Also going to revamp my refugium, ad chaeto back into the system. I Had pulled chaeto out to use as a frag tank and transferred chaeto to a reactor. It works but it’s a pain.

Now for ideas.

1- I run noopsyche lights and thinking of adding more to the red channel to promote more algea growth in the main DT. Hopefully producing enough algea on the glass to scrape daily.
I do not have gha or cyano issues with this tank(knock on wood)
Allowing my to reduce feeding more

2- maybe change pellets to something else? Does new life have high phosphates?

3- split the refugium in half and run a different macro that the tangs will like eating- they don’t like chaeto - thinking dragons breathe may be an option. Allowing me to harvest and feed to them maybe replacing the nori eventually.

4- finally get my algea turf scrubber online.

5- ad my old eshopp esk-300 skimmer to the system. Run dual skimmer, the k1 is sitting on a shelf to get to a good water level and the eshopp will pull from under the shelf.
If I did this I would 3d print a funnel type input for both and have them funnel as much of the flow from the sump, thru the skimmer to process as much as possible.

After head loss I estimate 4x turnover thru my sump. Would love to be able to flow that all thru the skimmer

6- eventually build a direct fed recirculating skimmer approx 36” tall that sits outside my stand plumbed direct to the main overflow allowing for 100% water flowing thru the skimmer prior to going into my sump. (Had this setup 20 years ago and tank ran great)

7- revamping my flow in the tank- I picked up two 3/4” ocean motions recently and plan to plumb them in soon fed directly by the return pump. Each will have 2x 1/2” RFG nozzles. Hoping to clean up dead spots.

If you made it thru all this I commend you. Not sure if I am posting this for help / recommendations or just putting my thoughts down somewhere to easily see.

 

[PPBlimpy]

Feeding

 

[Michael71]

Following along and wishing you the best of luck!

 

[PPBlimpy]

Thank you!

 

[CHSUB]

Couple friends think I am nutty for what I am doing

Get new friends, seems very logical to me.

 

[PPBlimpy]

Get new friends, seems very logical to me.

They are mostly questioning why I am wanting to grow more algea. Their systems are fairly pristine. They started with dry bleached white rock, fresh bagged sand and are very sterile.

I run a dirty system.
Live rock from tank take downs, cleaned used sand- mixed grades, I don’t mind aptasia or hitchhikers or my sand having algea(do need to get a sand sifting goby or something to help)

Edited/added- also when I meet a new reefer with an established tank I generally ask to buy a couple piece of rubble and 1/2 cup of sand to ad to my system

 

[Hans-Werner]

Look at the lipid content of your pellet/dry food. If lipids (raw fat) are high, ca. 1/3 of raw protein by percentage, pellets are better suited than frozen food to keep water nutrients low. It is an effect that is also used in aquaculture to avoid high nutrient loads.

 

[PPBlimpy]

Look at the lipid content of your pellet/dry food. If lipids (raw fat) are high, ca. 1/3 of raw protein by percentage, pellets are better suited than frozen food to keep water nutrients low. It is an effect that is also used in aquaculture to avoid high nutrient loads.

I will check it out.
I like the new life marine pellets. Everyone in the tank eats them. I would prefer to get rid of the frozen cubes before the pellets. May do that when this flat runs out and go for a month without the frozen

 

[PPBlimpy]

Look at the lipid content of your pellet/dry food. If lipids (raw fat) are high, ca. 1/3 of raw protein by percentage, pellets are better suited than frozen food to keep water nutrients low. It is an effect that is also used in aquaculture to avoid high nutrient loads.

pulled from new life website

new life Marine Pellet

• Crude Protein (Min.): 36%
• Crude Fat (Min.): 7%
• Crude Fiber (Max.): 7%
• Moisture (Max.): 10%
• Vit. A(Min.): 10000 IU/Kg
• Vit. D(Min.): 3500 IU/Kg
• Vit.E (Min.): 400 IU/Kg
• Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) (Min.): 600 IU/Kg

I edited the original post. i feed New life Marine Pellet, not Spectrum like I originally posted. I was feeding spectrum large pellet for my large unicorn, sailfin and purple but went back to marine. May do the switch back eventually feeding both pellet sizes. inhabitants like both.

 

[Sdbuehler1]

I recently switched from Hikari marine S pellets to the New Life Spectrum as I believe they are higher quality. I was hoping to see my phosphates drop but I still have to run GFO on both of my tanks to keep phosphate within reason.

I feed pellets in the middle of the day to supplement between feedings of frozen cubes. I always assumed it was the pellets that are driving my phosphates up. I’m curious to see what your results are if you switch to only pellet feeding. I would love to just do pellet feeding. It would make my life so much easier.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The turf scrubber or macroalgae in a refugium is a fine, steady and slow way to export nutrients. I use macroalgae.

The GFO may have been too much or changed too suddenly. It can work fine with an appropriate amount.

 

[PPBlimpy]

I recently switched from Hikari marine S pellets to the New Life Spectrum as I believe they are higher quality. I was hoping to see my phosphates drop but I still have to run GFO on both of my tanks to keep phosphate within reason.

I feed pellets in the middle of the day to supplement between feedings of frozen cubes. I always assumed it was the pellets that are driving my phosphates up. I’m curious to see what your results are if you switch to only pellet feeding. I would love to just do pellet feeding. It would make my life so much easier.

I really like the new life pellets. Will go back to spectrum in small and large once I run out of marine.

If I can get the tank to produce more algea film and find a suitable macro that the tangs like I would love to stops he frozen and nori. Simplify things

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I really like the new life pellets. Will go back to spectrum in small and large once I run out of marine.

If I can get the tank to produce more algea film and find a suitable macro that the tangs like I would love to stops he frozen and nori. Simplify things

My yellow tang and one spot foxface eat most any macroalgae. I mostly grow ulva in my refugium, which they readily eat.

 

[PPBlimpy]

The turf scrubber or macroalgae in a refugium is a fine, steady and slow way to export nutrients. I use macroalgae.

The GFO may have been too much or changed too suddenly. It can work fine with an appropriate amount.

My sump has 4 x4” filter socks. 2 I run fine mesh bags in.

When I started gfo I was worried about it pulling to fast and I put 1/2 cup gfo(1/4 recommended) in one of the fine mesh socks then week 2 added 1/2 cup to the other. Week 3 I replaced the first one with fresh and week 4 did the same with the second and so on.

Every week the tank got 1/4 of the recommended replaced and only ran half recommend at one time. Each week it would fall to .8 or so hold for a couple days and then slowly climb back up. I could has split it up more to all 4 filter socks and ran each one in 4 week cycles but gfo was getting expensive and I don’t like having to maintain a chemical like that to keep the tank healthy.

 

[PPBlimpy]

My yellow tang and one spot foxface eat most any macroalgae. I mostly grow ulva in my refugium, which they readily eat.

I will check out ulva. None of my tangs will touch chaeto. I am sure some will eat calurpa ( not sure the spelling) but had bad experience in the pastt with it.

I have a unicorn, purple, d.sailfin, blue hippo, bristle tooth and Cole and also a 1 spot fox

 

[PPBlimpy]

Oh I did forget I usually have little neck clams living in the sump. I buy them 30-40 at a time. Pop them open once a week for the puffer and everyone to snack on.
Haven’t had any in the system since the tank crash but will be adding them again.

I keep them in a high flow area in the sump and they seem to do well. Had one in the display for nearly 2 years.

Will say my sump is has a lot more crap in the corners without them around

 

[rcasa]

Need some suggestions and ideas.

This will be LONG - I try to include any and all relevant info and history that I can think of to help with people having to ask a bunch of different ?s.

Couple friends think I am nutty for what I am doing.
Redsea S1000 G2
System is 262g mixed reef(no sps). Always ran high nutrients.

Tank crashed a couple months back and lost most my corals and 50BTA. Still don’t know exactly why but have my theory.

Would like to transition to a more LPS and SPS dom tank, especially since I have no more BTA

6 med-large tangs, foxface, pair of clowns and a 7” porcupine puffer.

Skimmer is a k1-200 ice cap that pulls mud out- works very well, have to empty every 3 days

Old Feeding schedule
Daily -3 large pinches of new life marine pellet
1 sheet of Amazon Nori
2 frozen cubes mysis or brine
Every other day
- 1 large raw shrimp (for the puffer)

I am trying to slowly- naturally lower my nitrates and phosphates. I was running GFO for a while and it was all lover the place and stressing my corals etc.

6 weeks ago my tank was at 75nitrate and 1.16 phos. This was fairly normal for the past year except when running gfo, it would bounce from .8 to 1.1

4 weeks ago I extended my light cycle by 2 hours, from 10->12 hrs in hope to grow more algea on the glass and rocks. Goal was to grow more algea, to help use up some nutrients and Let the herbivores graze more and allow me to reduce how much I feed daily.

Every day that I don’t feed the raw shrimp I turn off my wave makers, scrape the glass and let the fish eat the algea that comes off the glass prior to feeding them their pellets. And then 20 min after feeding I clean out the filter gloss from my sump, trying to remove anything that will just break down.

Also started feeding less

New Feeding schedule
Daily -2 large pinches of new life marine pellet
1- frozen cubes mysis or brine
Every other day
- 1 large raw shrimp (for the puffer)
- 1 sheet Amazon nori
- 1 cube mysis/brine opposite or shrimp

These to changes seem to be working.
Tested last night and nitrates are at 40.7 phosphates at 1.05

I have not been doing regular water changes. That will help for sure and finally finishing my mixing station and hoping that helps ease the burden. Will eventually start doing 2g daily WC also.

Also going to revamp my refugium, ad chaeto back into the system. I Had pulled chaeto out to use as a frag tank and transferred chaeto to a reactor. It works but it’s a pain.

Now for ideas.

1- I run noopsyche lights and thinking of adding more to the red channel to promote more algea growth in the main DT. Hopefully producing enough algea on the glass to scrape daily.
I do not have gha or cyano issues with this tank(knock on wood)
Allowing my to reduce feeding more

2- maybe change pellets to something else? Does new life have high phosphates?

3- split the refugium in half and run a different macro that the tangs will like eating- they don’t like chaeto - thinking dragons breathe may be an option. Allowing me to harvest and feed to them maybe replacing the nori eventually.

4- finally get my algea turf scrubber online.

5- ad my old eshopp esk-300 skimmer to the system. Run dual skimmer, the k1 is sitting on a shelf to get to a good water level and the eshopp will pull from under the shelf.
If I did this I would 3d print a funnel type input for both and have them funnel as much of the flow from the sump, thru the skimmer to process as much as possible.

After head loss I estimate 4x turnover thru my sump. Would love to be able to flow that all thru the skimmer

6- eventually build a direct fed recirculating skimmer approx 36” tall that sits outside my stand plumbed direct to the main overflow allowing for 100% water flowing thru the skimmer prior to going into my sump. (Had this setup 20 years ago and tank ran great)

7- revamping my flow in the tank- I picked up two 3/4” ocean motions recently and plan to plumb them in soon fed directly by the return pump. Each will have 2x 1/2” RFG nozzles. Hoping to clean up dead spots.

If you made it thru all this I commend you. Not sure if I am posting this for help / recommendations or just putting my thoughts down somewhere to easily see.

I love that question about new life and it makes me curious about that too, love to see everything you got after the lost. But in MY opinion idea 3 or 1 would be solid changes you can do for sure.

 

[PPBlimpy]

I love that question about new life and it makes me curious about that too, love to see everything you got after the lost. But in MY opinion idea 3 or 1 would be solid changes you can do for sure.

So I actually plan to test the tank tonight and see how things are trending. Hopefully down!

I did #1 adding more time and adding more red. Algea production is up on the glass. Tangs do a pretty good job and they enjoy the scrapings.

I also did #5 - added a second large skimmer and removed my filter socks. Both skimmers are pulling good.

#3 is happening soon- still trying to locate dragons breathe locally. But I am harvesting chaeto tonight.

I have also been blowing off my rocks weekly getting everything into the water column,
mixing station is up and running so water changes should be more frequent

Also working toward getting the algea turf scrubber going. But that’s a DIY project that I don’t really have time for currently

 

[rcasa]

I love that question about new life and it makes me curious about that too, love to see everything you got after the lost. But in MY opinion idea 3 or 1 would be solid changes you can do for sure.

So I actually plan to test the tank tonight and see how things are trending. Hopefully down!

I did #1 adding more time and adding more red. Algea production is up on the glass. Tangs do a pretty good job and they enjoy the scrapings.

I also did #5 - added a second large skimmer and removed my filter socks. Both skimmers are pulling good.

#3 is happening soon- still trying to locate dragons breathe locally. But I am harvesting chaeto tonight.

I have also been blowing off my rocks weekly getting everything into the water column,
mixing station is up and running so water changes should be more frequent

Also working toward getting the algea turf scrubber going. But that’s a DIY project that I don’t really have time for currently

Blowing off the rocks helps and also water changes added to that, my tang loves the algae I scrape off my glass but I love how you also did #5 I think that’s great, love to see it

 

[Dogeatbird]

Algae does fix/lock dissolved nutrients both N and P. Feeding back algae grown from the system merely cycles N and P between a fixed state and dissolved state.

I will not say you are overstocked, or in-appropriately stocked. As the OP has not noted aggression or fish losses.

Dual skimmers that function are a plus. Sources of food for your livestock also seem fine.

Stability of parameters both nutrients and major chemistry also have not been declared.

Why the crash; might have been an allopathic reaction to an algae crash, or influx of a contaminant.

Ultimately may never know.

Choose the levels you want to maintain. Water change as allowed by budget and labor desire.

Verify that skim-mate export is not affecting salinity.

Export an equal amount of algae; that is recycled via food offset.

Just another man’s opinion. Do want has worked and is working in your experience.

As long as your goals are maintained, and your desire to hold that line continues.

If you are happy, then continue to ring that bell.