LPS issue driving me nuts
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miyags
Valuable Member
For LPS that start to recede.If all water prams are good and have been good.Try looking at your tank at night with a flashlight,about 3to4 hours after lights out.Look for amphipods infestation,some are known to eat coral. When edges are damaged they start to feed. Asterina starfish can also damage LPS edges, then the amphpodes start to feed at night.They can wipe out whole colonies in days.What I use to combat them is Interceptor plus.You could also introduce a target mandarin or a wrasse fish to eat them.
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
I’ll take a look. I know I don’t have those star fish and I do have a Wrasse but I’ll look.
Does infection look whiteish flesh around the head? Will revive dip by 2 little fish work? Or will proxied be better?
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
What was the combo solution? Ratio?
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MaccaPopEye
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Sorry I didn't get to reply earlier, I'm on vacation atm so trying not to check R2R too often
I see that further down you found some flat worms that are very likely the cause, I'm glad you found them. What happened to you does sound very similar to what I had happen. I never found any flat worms, but that doesn't mean I didn't have any. In the end I never figured out what happened but I have gone without LPS for quite a while now (just 2 leather corals and some mushrooms) so hopefully if that is what I had they will have died now, in the new year I plan to try a hammer or torch again and see how it goes.
Your post raised a few interesting things so for any other people I'll add my opinions and comments below.
- Such a small temp swing wont be an issue 99% of the time unless it's happening multiple times a day.
- While salt can be something to keep in mind I also don't think it's going to cause things as long as you keep your big 3 elements fairly consistent during the change (and enough people use RS salt that I don't think that it's a likely culprit).
- Light is always a possibility but in my research I found that corals can survive and even thrive in such a wide range of PAR I found it's usually not the cause but more likely something that can make symptoms worse.
- I checked my RW-8s over many times and there was no swelling of magnets or any parts that could be leaking heavy metals into the water.
- Marine pure is known to leach aluminium into the water, it's now a proven fact. But at the same time aluminium is not really that harmful in moderate amounts and Dr. R. HF has published an article on this. My ICP test also showed aluminium present, but at only barely elevated levels, so I am fairly confident to rule that one out.
- I know a few people have mentioned the leathers as a possible issue but I really don't think it's likely, in my old tank (400L) it was never an issue with the exact same corals and I really can't see a small leather releasing so much toxins that it caused such a huge issue in my 750L system (especially when running GAC as well).
The vermetid snails are something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet. I didn't know that they could be harmful to coral at all. I have seen some people call them a pest before but only because they get onto pumps and are a pain to clean off, other than that I thought they were just CUC
. I had a lot more in my old tank that never caused an issue, but as I didn't realise they could be a problem maybe when I did my tank swap they ran out of food and started stinging to try and find some? This is something I will certainly look into as I have quite a few of them on most of my rocks!Thanks for linking the video, I'm keen to watch it later when I get a chance as I have always tried to keep ~75-100 PAR on the sand bed for LPS. I honestly think light will more often magnify any symptoms rather than be the cause, but it certainly helps to rule it out! As I will be trying some LPS again next year I'll be re-checking my PAR in the next couple of months.
After a lot of research, personally I am pretty confident that this is a myth that may be rooted in truth but spiralled out of context before becoming common in the hobby.
IMO, "LPS love dirty water" does not mean LPS need, or even prefer higher nutrients
Every absolutely stunning LPS tank I have seen actually runs quite low nutrients (SPS levels) and LPS on reefs thrive in NSW that is very low in nutrients.
I think this myth started as LPS like food particles floating in the water - hence "dirty water" and at some stage this got confused with nutrients. But having lots of food floating around does not need to mean high nutrients. Just because LPS can survive in higher nutrients doesn't mean they like or will thrive in them. And the water also does not need to be "dirty" all the time, in the ocean "dirty" water full of food comes and goes with the currents and tides so IMO and from every stunning LPS dominant tank I have seen, simply ensuring you allow your LPS to eat lots of good meaty foods ticks that "dirty water" box.
I tired this and never saw any pods, but I was also wan't quite looking for them. I also am certain that I don't have any asterina. But this is defs a great tip.
Hopefully these are the cause and you can eradicate them! How did you find them if you don't mind me asking?I found flatworms that hinder lps... treating tank now. Thanks for the help
miyags
Valuable Member
Two separate dips.Fill a container with tank water,add coral. Pour peroxide in slowly a little at a time until you see little bubbles start to form. Let sit a few minutes.Then place coral in separate container with Lugols,I add enough to color water yellowish orange for about 4 minutes.Then in a 5 gallon bucket with tank water I rinse the coral off and return to tank.I usually do this when I'm doing a water change. Old water for dips and rinse.
miyags
Valuable Member
I was given a couple frags off hammers,that had some flat worms on them.I dipped them in RO water for no longer than a minute , and they fell right off. It made them mad for a day,then they opened right up.But this was before they entered the main tank.
Last edited:
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
Then that has to be my problem. It's like one after another was dyeing.. I thought stray voltage, infection, or my Marine Pure Block lol.. but it was flatworms. I can't see them, I don't know if they are dead after one treatment. Do I treat again tonight? or do a water change , wait a few days treat again and then another water change. Good thing is my flatworms are not toxic as I have read others can be. Thoughts?
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
Sorry I didn't get to reply earlier, I'm on vacation atm so trying not to check R2R too often
I see that further down you found some flat worms that are very likely the cause, I'm glad you found them. What happened to you does sound very similar to what I had happen. I never found any flat worms, but that doesn't mean I didn't have any. In the end I never figured out what happened but I have gone without LPS for quite a while now (just 2 leather corals and some mushrooms) so hopefully if that is what I had they will have died now, in the new year I plan to try a hammer or torch again and see how it goes.
Your post raised a few interesting things so for any other people I'll add my opinions and comments below.
- Such a small temp swing wont be an issue 99% of the time unless it's happening multiple times a day.
- While salt can be something to keep in mind I also don't think it's going to cause things as long as you keep your big 3 elements fairly consistent during the change (and enough people use RS salt that I don't think that it's a likely culprit).
- Light is always a possibility but in my research I found that corals can survive and even thrive in such a wide range of PAR I found it's usually not the cause but more likely something that can make symptoms worse.
- I checked my RW-8s over many times and there was no swelling of magnets or any parts that could be leaking heavy metals into the water.
- Marine pure is known to leach aluminium into the water, it's now a proven fact. But at the same time aluminium is not really that harmful in moderate amounts and Dr. R. HF has published an article on this. My ICP test also showed aluminium present, but at only barely elevated levels, so I am fairly confident to rule that one out.
- I know a few people have mentioned the leathers as a possible issue but I really don't think it's likely, in my old tank (400L) it was never an issue with the exact same corals and I really can't see a small leather releasing so much toxins that it caused such a huge issue in my 750L system (especially when running GAC as well).
The vermetid snails are something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet. I didn't know that they could be harmful to coral at all. I have seen some people call them a pest before but only because they get onto pumps and are a pain to clean off, other than that I thought they were just CUC
Thanks for linking the video, I'm keen to watch it later when I get a chance as I have always tried to keep ~75-100 PAR on the sand bed for LPS. I honestly think light will more often magnify any symptoms rather than be the cause, but it certainly helps to rule it out! As I will be trying some LPS again next year I'll be re-checking my PAR in the next couple of months.
After a lot of research, personally I am pretty confident that this is a myth that may be rooted in truth but spiralled out of context before becoming common in the hobby.
IMO, "LPS love dirty water" does not mean LPS need, or even prefer higher nutrients
Every absolutely stunning LPS tank I have seen actually runs quite low nutrients (SPS levels) and LPS on reefs thrive in NSW that is very low in nutrients.
I think this myth started as LPS like food particles floating in the water - hence "dirty water" and at some stage this got confused with nutrients. But having lots of food floating around does not need to mean high nutrients. Just because LPS can survive in higher nutrients doesn't mean they like or will thrive in them. And the water also does not need to be "dirty" all the time, in the ocean "dirty" water full of food comes and goes with the currents and tides so IMO and from every stunning LPS dominant tank I have seen, simply ensuring you allow your LPS to eat lots of good meaty foods ticks that "dirty water" box.
I tired this and never saw any pods, but I was also wan't quite looking for them. I also am certain that I don't have any asterina. But this is defs a great tip.
Hopefully these are the cause and you can eradicate them! How did you find them if you don't mind me asking?
Great write up. Im hesitant on the marine pure block. If its leaching any metals then that's a red flag. Should I just remove it? BRS did a study on this block and after a year it seemed to stop working. Im almost a year and my nitrates are high. So I wonder....
I run carbon so my leather should not be an issue. I guess the salt and temp change is also not an issue. thanks for reassuring me !
Last night I did see pods around my head of the frog spawn. Now I do think the flatworms are the issue but maybe that's another story. Im going to get a yellow wrasse today and a madrian goby.
MY RW-8 is int he trash. I ordered a Nero 5 pump. Got it for $247 seems really nice!
Do you know much about killing flatworms?
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
Sorry I didn't get to reply earlier, I'm on vacation atm so trying not to check R2R too often
I see that further down you found some flat worms that are very likely the cause, I'm glad you found them. What happened to you does sound very similar to what I had happen. I never found any flat worms, but that doesn't mean I didn't have any. In the end I never figured out what happened but I have gone without LPS for quite a while now (just 2 leather corals and some mushrooms) so hopefully if that is what I had they will have died now, in the new year I plan to try a hammer or torch again and see how it goes.
Your post raised a few interesting things so for any other people I'll add my opinions and comments below.
- Such a small temp swing wont be an issue 99% of the time unless it's happening multiple times a day.
- While salt can be something to keep in mind I also don't think it's going to cause things as long as you keep your big 3 elements fairly consistent during the change (and enough people use RS salt that I don't think that it's a likely culprit).
- Light is always a possibility but in my research I found that corals can survive and even thrive in such a wide range of PAR I found it's usually not the cause but more likely something that can make symptoms worse.
- I checked my RW-8s over many times and there was no swelling of magnets or any parts that could be leaking heavy metals into the water.
- Marine pure is known to leach aluminium into the water, it's now a proven fact. But at the same time aluminium is not really that harmful in moderate amounts and Dr. R. HF has published an article on this. My ICP test also showed aluminium present, but at only barely elevated levels, so I am fairly confident to rule that one out.
- I know a few people have mentioned the leathers as a possible issue but I really don't think it's likely, in my old tank (400L) it was never an issue with the exact same corals and I really can't see a small leather releasing so much toxins that it caused such a huge issue in my 750L system (especially when running GAC as well).
The vermetid snails are something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet. I didn't know that they could be harmful to coral at all. I have seen some people call them a pest before but only because they get onto pumps and are a pain to clean off, other than that I thought they were just CUC
Thanks for linking the video, I'm keen to watch it later when I get a chance as I have always tried to keep ~75-100 PAR on the sand bed for LPS. I honestly think light will more often magnify any symptoms rather than be the cause, but it certainly helps to rule it out! As I will be trying some LPS again next year I'll be re-checking my PAR in the next couple of months.
After a lot of research, personally I am pretty confident that this is a myth that may be rooted in truth but spiralled out of context before becoming common in the hobby.
IMO, "LPS love dirty water" does not mean LPS need, or even prefer higher nutrients
Every absolutely stunning LPS tank I have seen actually runs quite low nutrients (SPS levels) and LPS on reefs thrive in NSW that is very low in nutrients.
I think this myth started as LPS like food particles floating in the water - hence "dirty water" and at some stage this got confused with nutrients. But having lots of food floating around does not need to mean high nutrients. Just because LPS can survive in higher nutrients doesn't mean they like or will thrive in them. And the water also does not need to be "dirty" all the time, in the ocean "dirty" water full of food comes and goes with the currents and tides so IMO and from every stunning LPS dominant tank I have seen, simply ensuring you allow your LPS to eat lots of good meaty foods ticks that "dirty water" box.
I tired this and never saw any pods, but I was also wan't quite looking for them. I also am certain that I don't have any asterina. But this is defs a great tip.
Hopefully these are the cause and you can eradicate them! How did you find them if you don't mind me asking?
I did not see them in my tank. They are white and clear. I still can see them. I was dipping the corals I thought were infected in revive and proxied. When I dipped a ton of those flat worms came off like shaking a salt shacker. I seen pics before so I knew what to look for. I’m about to do a water change. And keep a close eye on my nitrates and pho. Crapy this is my nitrates are around 20 as is so I hope I don’t crash my tank. I have a lot of corals
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
I have the same issues. SPS looking perfect. Huge Duncans and frogspawn (10"X10") dying
I think my issue was my salinity was too high my calibration solution I was using for my refractometer was defective check and double check your salinity .
HelenofTroy
Community Member
Also had some lps losses recently. Read through this and wondering if you ever figured it out.
HelenofTroy
Community Member
Also had some lps losses recently. Read through this and wondering if you ever figured it out.
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MaccaPopEye
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I'm not 100% sure, however I am pretty certain that the cause of all of my woes was (and still is) vermatid snails.
A couple of months ago I added a single hammer coral polyp to the tank (very well inspected before it was added). All parameters stable as a rock and have been for months. It looked fine for about 2 weeks and then went downhill quickly. I pulled it out and what do you know, there was a fresh vermatid snail on it. I snipped it off and put the coral back in and it survived for another few weeks before one of my fish knocked it down onto the sand bed either during or just before I went away for a week. When I got back I flipped it back over but it wasn't in good shape and died a couple of days after that (I hadn't secured it as I wanted to be able to remove it to inspect it whenever I needed to).
The issue I had also ended up killing a lot of zoas and mushrooms, but not all. I do have a fair few mushrooms and a few zoas now and all have been doing fine for months, and I have checked and there are no vermatids on the rocks that they are on.
I'll be pulling my scape apart in the next few months and will be going over every single rock with a fine tooth comb. Hopefully I can find the large "mother" vermatid that constantly breeds and makes more and also crush as many of the small ones as I possibly can. I doubt I will ever be free of them but after I do that I might give some LPS another go (although I suspect my scribbled angel will develop a taste for it knowing my luck)
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