Magnesium and Calcium not increasing with AFR, normal?

[testuser]

Hey guys, I have a fairly new aquarium (only had corals in it for a week and a half). I noticed that regardless of my water change, my alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium were all pretty low. So I started dosing the original suggested amount by All-For-Reef for a week (~1ml for my 5g tank). Alkalinity steadily went up the expected .2 per day or so, however, after a week, magnesium was still 1280 and calcium is still 340mg. Alkalinity has steadily gone up one point to 8, but the rest, stagnant. I started increasing the dose for this week to ~1.5ml per the dosing instructions, but wanted another take on if I should be dosing calcium or magnesium separately, or just be patient by gradually increasing the dosing amount per week, per their instructions.

I suppose ultimately, I will need to separate them if alkalinity continues to rise, with the stragglers for calcium and magnesium being doses separately since they're taking their time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The expected boost to calcium and magnesium that accompanied a 0.2 dKH rise in alk is much too small to detect. About 1.4 ppm calcium and much less than 1 ppm of magnesium. Even with a full 1 dKH rise, Ca and Mg will not be readily detected.

 

[testuser]

The expected boost to calcium and magnesium that accompanied a 0.2 dKH rise in alk is much too small to detect. About 1.4 ppm calcium and much less than 1 ppm of magnesium. Even with a full 1 dKH rise, Ca and Mg will not be readily detected.

So all for reef covering those three elements doesn't sound like a good idea, is that right? Is the suggested route doing all three separately? If so to the latter, any recommendations there?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So all for reef covering those three elements doesn't sound like a good idea, is that right? Is the suggested route doing all three separately? If so to the latter, any recommendations there?

Like any balanced alk and calcium additive system, it is fine for maintaining them against demand by corals calcifying, but is inappropriate if you want a large boost to calcium or magnesium.

 

[testuser]

Like any balanced alk and calcium additive system, it is fine for maintaining them against demand by corals calcifying, but is inappropriate if you want a large boost to calcium or magnesium.

Given those numbers, should I go for a large boost? It sounds like both my magnesium and calcium are both lower than typical expectations by comparison to the ocean. If you recommend a boost, what do you have in mind for giving those two a boost, in your experience?

 

[Idech]

All for Reef is meant to maintain what parameters you already have. It is not supposed to increase your values (except alkalinity, which might).

So buy another form of calcium and magnesium supplement and increase those parameters to what you want them to be. Once you’ve tested and it’s fine, then start testing AFR with your actual dose to see if it keeps stable. If so, you’re done. If not, increase AFR until it is (you might have to readjust calcium and/or magnesium they decreased while your’ were testing over a few days/weeks).

 

[testuser]

All for Reef is meant to maintain what parameters you already have. It is not supposed to increase your values (except alkalinity, which might).

So buy another form of calcium and magnesium supplement and increase those parameters to what you want them to be. Once you’ve tested and it’s fine, then start testing AFR with your actual dose to see if it keeps stable. If so, you’re done. If not, increase AFR until it is (you might have to readjust calcium and/or magnesium they decreased while your’ were testing over a few days/weeks).

That makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying. So AFR is for sustaining.

I'll pickup one of the name brands out there for both calcium and magnesium.

Given that I am new to this, is there a target you have for your reefs? I've read 380-450ppm for calcium (per the test kit I have) and 1300-1350ppm for magnesium just from browsing the forum here. I don't have a personal target, other than whatever matches closely to the ocean and what the corals would expect (and encourage growth and good health, of course).

 

[Idech]

I only have a few years under my belt myself so I refer to charts like this one. Try to aim for those numbers more or less but don’t chase them. Accept what your tank gives you as long as it’s close enough

 

[testuser]

I only have a few years under my belt myself so I refer to charts like this one. Try to aim for those numbers more or less but don’t chase them. Accept what your tank gives you as long as it’s close enough

Perfect, thanks again!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would boost the calcium with calcium chloride to about 420 ppm. The magnesium is fine and matches average ocean water, but some folks like it a bit higher.

 

[testuser]

Fair! I'll see if I can pickup a good calcium supplement. Maybe Red Sea or some other reputable brand. Thereafter, once I get it to a good level, I'll use AFR to help sustain that level.

 

[Idech]

Fair! I'll see if I can pickup a good calcium supplement. Maybe Red Sea or some other reputable brand. Thereafter, once I get it to a good level, I'll use AFR to help sustain that level.

That’s what I bought. It’s part of a system to be used with alkalinity, but I only bought magnesium and calcium and use them separately. I like that it’s already mixed. All you need is to figure out how much you need.

B-Ionic Calcium Buffer 2x1 gallon

B-Ionic Calcium BufferB-Ionic Calcium Bufferis the original, unique, easy to use, two-component liquid supplement system. When using equal volumes of each component, the aquarist can easily maintain calcium and alkalinity levels with no mixing powders, disruption of ionic balance, or addition of...

reefsolution.com

 

[testuser]

I would boost the calcium with calcium chloride to about 420 ppm. The magnesium is fine and matches average ocean water, but some folks like it a bit higher.

I was reviewing a thread from a couple of years ago where you helped a guy with advice on how quickly you can elevate calcium per day (his allegedly dropped 200ppm in a day or so).

Given that I am at 340ppm and wish to achieve your suggested 420ppm, what is a safe amount you'd say per day I could try with a 5 gallon tank? Also, should I balance it with alkalinity and dose the same relatively speaking, or continue my miniscule 1ml of All-For-Reef as my alkalinity to balance while dosing calcium?

Also, when you say calcium chloride, would Red Sea Foundations A (Ca/Sr) suffice for what I'm looking for?

 

[Idech]

I was reviewing a thread from a couple of years ago where you helped a guy with advice on how quickly you can elevate calcium per day (his allegedly dropped 200ppm in a day or so).

Given that I am at 340ppm and wish to achieve your suggested 420ppm, what is a safe amount you'd say per day I could try with a 5 gallon tank? Also, should I balance it with alkalinity and dose the same relatively speaking, or continue my miniscule 1ml of All-For-Reef as my alkalinity to balance while dosing calcium?

Also, when you say calcium chloride, would Red Sea Foundations A (Ca/Sr) suffice for what I'm looking for?

Randy‘s calculator : https://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

 

[testuser]

Randy‘s calculator : https://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Maybe I am misunderstanding the calculator, but while it notes what a "balanced" alkalinity would be for a particular level of calcium, what I am looking for is: if I add X ppm of calcium, how much does that lower my alkalinity by (e.g. how much do I need to counteract the calcium with alkalinity in order to maintain balance). Dose X in Calcium, then dose Y in alkalinity to maintain same alkalinity, if that makes sense.

 

[snorklr]

couple stupid questions...who's kits are you testing this with? what is your salinity and what are you testing it with ? have you considered using a salt like Reef Crystals whose numbers should be at the levels you're looking for in the first place...i just cant picture having to dose a relatively new 5 gal

 

[testuser]

couple stupid questions...who's kits are you testing this with? what is your salinity and what are you testing it with ? have you considered using a salt like Reef Crystals whose numbers should be at the levels you're looking for in the first place...i just cant picture having to dose a relatively new 5 gal

I thought the same thing, and figured water changes would do the trick.

Salinity: 1.025, and just using a refractometer that's been calibrated. Maybe I'm not using the right salt like you said? But I can't fathom that this low of calcium is the expectation. I have Aquaforest sea salt which it looks like at 35ppt (which is what I'm doing), it should be 380-400. But you bring up a really good point about choosing a different salt to achieve my goals.

There also seems to be many varying schools of thought as to what is "good". Such as, the suggested table for SPS vs LPS for Aquaforest differs from the table posted in this thread earlier.

In either case, it doesn't seem like I'm hitting the anticipated levels for Aquaforest, which I find odd to be off by 40ppm, that can't be right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also, when you say calcium chloride, would Red Sea Foundations A (Ca/Sr) suffice for what I'm looking for?

Yes, there are many suitable hobby and DIY brands.

The optimal daily rise is often limited, and that is more because you may want to limit the introductions of deleterious impurities all at once, rather than because anything really cares that calcium itself jumped a little.

The more uncertain you are about the impurities, the lower I'd start, but 25 ppm per day is a fine balance for most materials unless it is an unknown, ungraded brand of, say, de-icing material.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the calculator, but while it notes what a "balanced" alkalinity would be for a particular level of calcium, what I am looking for is: if I add X ppm of calcium, how much does that lower my alkalinity by (e.g. how much do I need to counteract the calcium with alkalinity in order to maintain balance). Dose X in Calcium, then dose Y in alkalinity to maintain same alkalinity, if that makes sense.

Ignore anything the calculator says about "balance". That is a theoretical concept, not intended as a target.

Adding calcium will not lower alkalinity a t all, unless and until some process (like a growing coral) uses both the calcium and alkalinity.

 

[testuser]

Ignore anything the calculator says about "balance". That is a theoretical concept, not intended as a target.

Adding calcium will not lower alkalinity a t all, unless and until some process (like a growing coral) uses both the calcium and alkalinity.

Thank you very much for both of your thoughtful replies! I will start that tomorrow when I get the orders and measure frequently for any weird changes. Thanks again!