Marine Pure does release some form of Al into tank

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I took a look at my last ATI ICP test and it did have elevated Aluminum, I do have a few marine pure blocks and two boxes of the spheres, but from the chart it was still fine, so I’m not going to worry about it, I know it’s not the “triton” test Randy but I think it’s just as good, it costs less and they even test ur rodi water , not a big deal, my last test even though I was getting zero on my tds, it suggested to change my DI resin, I would normally wait till it got alittle higher with the color change in the canister, but I had another waiting so I did, when I did my next on 2 months later RODI all clear!! Maybe we should change before it turns from blue to brown????! Just nice to know!!

What did you see in it that made you change the DI? I'm not a fan of their RO/DI testing because I don't think it comes with any useful guidance as to how much of what is too much to be acceptable.

 

[waxhawreefer]

What did you see in it that made you change the DI? I'm not a fan of their RO/DI testing because I don't think it comes with any useful guidance as to how much of what is too much to be acceptable.

It was there recommendation, I guess my silicon was high?? My next it was much lower, after the change

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It was there recommendation, I guess my silicon was high?? My next it was much lower, after the change

Was your tank level high or do you have a diatom problem?

FWIW, I intentionally dosed more silicate than that level would add.

Remember, the amount added is cut back tremendously by dilution. If you add 1% daily for evaporation, you are only adding 0.5 ug/L each day. I dosed about 200 ug/L equivalent once a week or so.

 

[jorahx]

What is "fwiw"

 

[DSC reef]

What is "fwiw"

For what it's worth

 

[waxhawreefer]

Was your tank level high or do you have a diatom problem?

FWIW, I intentionally dosed more silicate than that level would add.

Remember, the amount added is cut back tremendously by dilution. If you add 1% daily for evaporation, you are only adding 0.5 ug/L each day. I dosed about 200 ug/L equivalent once a week or so.

No I don’t have diatoms at the moment and I did not dose any silicate, not being a chemist I took there recommendation to change DI resin to lower the silicate valve and it did or at least two months later when I sent in another test, I know that this test isn’t God, but every little bit helps , until theseICP tests started coming out dosing ,testing , water changes and observation are were how we got to know our tanks, I use this as a guide, hopefully if I do this or that it might help or I might see I change in something, or could just be a waste of more time and money!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No I don’t have diatoms at the moment and I did not dose any silicate, not being a chemist I took there recommendation to change DI resin to lower the silicate valve and it did or at least two months later when I sent in another test, I know that this test isn’t God, but every little bit helps , until theseICP tests started coming out dosing ,testing , water changes and observation are were how we got to know our tanks, I use this as a guide, hopefully if I do this or that it might help or I might see I change in something, or could just be a waste of more time and money!

IMO, it wasn't a needed change, and that's why I dislike the unguided RO/DI test: people do unnecessary things to solve nonproblems.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With regard to RO/DI, I think it would be very unusual for 0 ppm TDs water to not be suitable for a reef tank.

In general, I like to use 2 DI is series, using the first one until the TDS rises to about half of the value incoming to it, then swap that one out and put the second one into that position and a new one at the end.

This way, you always have a very good DI in place, and can use them to near exhaustion.

 

[waxhawreefer]

With regard to RO/DI, I think it would be very unusual for 0 ppm TDs water to not be suitable for a reef tank.

In general, I like to use 2 DI is series, using the first one until the TDS rises to about half of the value incoming to it, then swap that one out and put the second one into that position and a new one at the end.

This way, you always have a very good DI in place, and can use them to near exhaustion.

Ur probably right that I didn’t need to change so soon but I had a $10 refill bag at the ready, but what makes that any different than a triton test coming back and saying ur low on iodine and dose 2ml for three days to get u back up?? Maybe good for a week or two but then ur right back to where u started, after many ICP tests u can determine that ur tank uses more of this or that but that still really be an expensive venture!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ur probably right that I didn’t need to change so soon but I had a $10 refill bag at the ready, but what makes that any different than a triton test coming back and saying ur low on iodine and dose 2ml for three days to get u back up?? Maybe good for a week or two but then ur right back to where u started, after many ICP tests u can determine that ur tank uses more of this or that but that still really be an expensive venture!!

IMO, you need to also take Triton recommendations and then re-evaluate them yourself whether to follow them. I saw one guy get a recommendation to boost low lithium, despite the fact that it has no known natural biological role. I would never do that.

But at least you can use NSW levels as some sort of guide. Folks really have almost nothing to compare their RO/DI water to to say it is OK or not, and one must carefully think through what effect it might have on the tank values of those same parameters. It is an impossible criteria to say it should have nothing in it, so that is my issue: how do users of the ATI RO/DI data decide? IMO, it can be beyond the capabilities of many reefers.

 

[ReefAddict16]

I have no idea how aluminum effects coral but I recently took out my marine pure block after three months of use and multiple acros deaths. So far everything seems to be doing fine.

 

[klp]

ICP test got back today. I have seen reports of people saying Marine Pure block releases some form of Al. It does based on ICP tests before and after placement of marine pure block in sump of my 700 gallon tank. Below is 11-14-2017 test and have several tests before this without reported Al

ICP test today after running marine pure block for 6 weeks.

The thought was brought up of Chinese manufacturing being a possible cause of elevated aluminum in tests. Where did you buy yours from? Also did you pre rinse the blocks first and how thoroughly before adding to your setup? I may be missing something but if it is "dust" then rinsing should eliminate it.

 

[klp]

It's not all that clear that Marine Pure blocks are indeed leaching aluminum. At least not in significant amounts.

As noted, increased amounts of aluminum will usually show up on an ICP test if you place Marine Pure blocks in your aquarium. But ICP tests break everything down into the most basic elements. What the blocks are likely releasing is relatively inert ceramic dust (alumina silicate dust).

Reasons to suspect alumina silicate dust rather than aluminum:

BRS studies showed the amount of aluminum showing up on an ICP test was several times greater relative to the total volume of Marine Pure material for the "dustier" blocks. Namely, the very thin blocks. For the same amount of material, the thin blocks released something like 4 times as much aluminum. If the blocks were actually leaching aluminum, the amount of aluminum released would be roughly proportional to the amount of ceramic material added to the tank. Which is not the case. The spheres released much less aluminum than either block shape. The blocks are extruded shapes which are then cut to size. The cutting process clearly degrades the integrity of the block. The spheres are molded shapes and are much more stable.

Ceramic flower pots will release aluminum at very low and at very high pH levels. Plants in ceramic flower pots will experience obvious aluminum toxicity at low and high pH levels. Plants in ceramic flower pots do not however exhibit symptoms of aluminum toxicity at pH values in the 7.6 to 8.3 ranges. Ceramic materials (alumina silicates) are rather inert and non-reactive at pH values normally seen in a reef aquarium. Bacteria growing on flower pots also does not appear to slow the release of aluminum at low and high pH values. At a pH of 8.0 or so, a Marine Pure block would at worse leach aluminum very, very slowly.

Aluminum toxicity is not something an organism will usually recover from. Plants exposed to high levels of aluminum will continue to decline as long as the source of aluminum remains in place. The plants do not respond poorly at first and then regain health. And most organisms find high levels of aluminum to be toxic. So the fact that just select organisms (like mushroom corals and sponges) react negatively and then recover is not something that would probably happen if the Marine Pure blocks were leaching aluminum. The leaching would continue, the effects would get worse over time and quite a broad range of organisms would likely eventually suffer. Suddenly releasing a bunch of ceramic dust into the aquarium could however temporarily irritate certain corals - which could then recover as the dust slowly settles out. Ceramic dust can be a powerful irritant and is considered a hazard even for humans.

You can visibly see dust fall off of the Marine Pure blocks.

BRS studies also showed a spike of silica on ICP tests when aluminum levels jumped. Which would also be consistent with a sudden cloud of alumina silicate dust.

Many, many people use Marine Pure blocks without seeing any long-term elevated levels of aluminum. I personally use the spheres and have no detectable aluminum. Many folks using the thin blocks (and to a lesser extent the thick blocks) do, however, experience short-term elevated levels of aluminum on an ICP test soon after placing the blocks. And many also notice short-term coral irritation.

I believe largely inert dust is mostly what is showing up on ICP tests. The effect of dumping a bunch of dust into the aquarium is consistent with what most people experience when they place a Marine Pure block in their sump.

If the blocks are pre rinsed thoroughly would that not eliminate the possibility of the "dust" you talk about? Seems like that may explain why some people do not experience elevated levels and others do. By thorough I mean putting it under direct pressure from tap water along all sides to insure complete dust removal and then a final rodi rinse. That to me would be definitive and then test for aluminum the first month. Seems a simple way to settle the argument rather than just theory. All buying from a source that is from the manufacturer not Chinese as has been suggested.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The thought was brought up of Chinese manufacturing being a possible cause of elevated aluminum in tests. Where did you buy yours from? Also did you pre rinse the blocks first and how thoroughly before adding to your setup? I may be missing something but if it is "dust" then rinsing should eliminate it.

Messed up manufacturing could certainly be an issue for this (or any) chemical product. "Imitation products" wouldn't seem to explain the results as BRS themselves showed aluminum "release" and since they carry the product for resale, presumably they bought it from the real company.

 

[klp]

Messed up manufacturing could certainly be an issue for this (or any) chemical product. "Imitation products" wouldn't seem to explain the results as BRS themselves showed aluminum "release" and since they carry the product for resale, presumably they bought it from the real company.

Thanks Randy I should have been more clear. I did understand that point I was just curious what he did. Would love to know if elevated "aluminum" level or a ceramic dust mixture. The dust idea seems plausible and worth investigating.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy I should have been more clear. I did understand that point I was just curious what he did. Would love to know if elevated "aluminum" level or a ceramic dust mixture. The dust idea seems plausible and worth investigating.

I agree that distinguishing the forms is worthwhile.

 

[chicago]

Did anyone see a video claiming that the high readings are from FAKE Chinese market ne pure blocks??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did anyone see a video claiming that the high readings are from FAKE Chinese market ne pure blocks??

I've not seen the video, but I have heard there are such claims. Presumably, a reseller such as BRS doing tests was able to buy from MarinePure directly, with no risk of imposters, but I don't know how they go about buying products.

 

[chicago]

Was not a brs video. But what I am asking the ones here that posted saying issues with marine pure. Are we sure it NOT the fakes

 

[Mark Gray]

Was not a brs video. But what I am asking the ones here that posted saying issues with marine pure. Are we sure it NOT the fakes

I have the blocks in my tank right now. I have never done a triton test on this tank, but everything looks ok. I do have 4 leathers in this one too. My plan is when I get my new build set up I will move a few of the marine pure blocks to the new tank to seed it. Then I Wil get rid of them, I don't really think I need them