Mass STN of Acros

[jackson6745]

I think a combination of the light changes and low nutrients levels are stressing your corals.

This. Get your nitrates >5ppm and po4 .03 -.05 and you'll see immediate improvements. Lots of ways to do it.

 

[Dburr1014]

You need to read my post again. I said feeding the fish will take care of Phosphate. That's assuming you are feeding then enough and have a decent amount of fish.

If you keep a reading of 1-2 ppm of Nitrate, you better be feeding those corals on a regular schedule. No one keeps Nitrate that low anymore and it's a mistake to do so in my experience.

To each his own though. Everyone has their own way of running their tanks and that's what makes this hobby interesting.

I did read it correctly. Feeding will take care of phosphate.
I added; feeding will add ammonium, IE; N. Which will turn into nitrate. Food contain both, can't have one without the other.
Testing for nitrate is the residual. If the test says 1-2, good. Tank has nitrates. Corals are fed.
Having more could be good, I don't know.
Bottom line, imo, feed more will take care of both N & P.

 

[Zoajohn]

@Zoajohn
The acros would be able to withstand the light change better if your iodine and nutrients were at the proper level.
I’ve heard Mike Paletta talk about the importance of Iodine in videos and here is a post from well respected vendor who colors up corals with the best of them, talking about iodine in his Tenuis thread.

HIGH END Tenuis Hoarder

From now on ask what par SPS sitting at veggie you buy from someone else yea at that point all my coral was from TSA pretty much only, i think I lost 50 frags with my stupidity moving tanks, they were in my last tank over a year at 220par range i believe and I was slowly still going up.

www.reef2reef.com

I'm working on getting them up with red sea trace colors. The A component is mostly Iodine. Hoping this is the key, I have no other ideas left

 

[Macdaddynick1]

I'm working on getting them up with red sea trace colors. The A component is mostly Iodine. Hoping this is the key, I have no other ideas left

For occasions like yours I have pre mixed phosphate and nitrate solution. I add very very small amounts when needed. Don’t overdo it with the iodine.

 

[X-37B]

You need to read my post again. I said feeding the fish will take care of Phosphate. That's assuming you are feeding then enough and have a decent amount of fish.

If you keep a reading of 1-2 ppm of Nitrate, you better be feeding those corals on a regular schedule. No one keeps Nitrate that low anymore and it's a mistake to do so in my experience.

To each his own though. Everyone has their own way of running their tanks and that's what makes this hobby interesting.

No one keeps no3 that low! Actually many do. I do not feed the corals only the fish. My no3 runs 1-2 with <5 my range. Po4 averages .05 with <.1 my max.
I feed plenty and still dose po4 in 1 system.
From my experience lower levels of no3 and po4 have worked very well for over 7 years now so?

Same with an alk of 7. If it goes up to 9 no problem if it goes to 6 no issue except slower growth.

I for one have never understood high alk. Back in the 80-90's we ran very high alk but most were not successful at these levels except for a few.
I get plenty of growth at an alk of 7 so why higher?
Here is a page shot of yesterdays high alk, lol.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

No one keeps no3 that low! Actually many do. I do not feed the corals only the fish. My no3 runs 1-2 with <5 my range. Po4 averages .05 with <.1 my max.
I feed plenty and still dose po4 in 1 system.
From my experience lower levels of no3 and po4 have worked very well for over 7 years now so?

Same with an alk of 7. If it goes up to 9 no problem if it goes to 6 no issue except slower growth.

I for one have never understood high alk. Back in the 80-90's we ran very high alk but most were not successful at these levels except for a few.
I get plenty of growth at an alk of 7 so why higher?
Here is a page shot of yesterdays high alk, lol.

Great, glad your system is doing well. You proved my point with your post.

You keep Nitrate and Phosphate low. However, you FEED plenty. Just exactly what I said above. If you want low nutrients, be feeding plenty. By feeding plenty, you also provide corals nutrients and the extra fish waste provides corals nutrients.

I'm not saying low nitrates can't work. It obviously has in the past. I think running low nitrates leaves you on the razors edge of STN/RTN because if any lighting change happens, you don't have the nutrients to keep up.

All in how you want to run your tank. If it works for you, fantastic.

@90's reefer do you have any pics of your tank? I would like to see some and I'm not sure if I have or not. Always good to see different styles.

 

[X-37B]

Great, glad your system is doing well. You proved my point with your post.

You keep Nitrate and Phosphate low. However, you FEED plenty. Just exactly what I said above. If you want low nutrients, be feeding plenty. By feeding plenty, you also provide corals nutrients and the extra fish waste provides corals nutrients.

I'm not saying low nitrates can't work. It obviously has in the past. I think running low nitrates leaves you on the razors edge of STN/RTN because if any lighting change happens, you don't have the nutrients to keep up.

All in how you want to run your tank. If it works for you, fantastic.

@90's reefer do you have any pics of your tank? I would like to see some and I'm not sure if I have or not. Always good to see different styles.

Pics
1 my old 120
2 my 20g nano
3 my 45 frag.
4 80g with 30g remote
20g nano was 8 months old when I took it down.
Its now up again with a 250watt de halide, lol.
All systems run po4<0.1 no3<5.
Has worked well @ 7dkh.
120 is now a 80g

 

[Lavey29]

Pics
1 my old 120
2 my 20g nano
3 my 45 frag.
4 80g with 30g remote
20g nano was 8 months old when I took it down.
Its now up again with a 250watt de halide, lol.
All systems run po4<0.1 no3<5.
Has worked well @ 7dkh.
120 is now a 80g

Beautiful tanks but you obviously run highly SPS dominant systems so the low alk low nutrients levels can be effective. For mixed reef or LPS dominant, I think higher nutrients levels are needed but alk should not be above 8.5.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Pics
1 my old 120
2 my 20g nano
3 my 45 frag.
4 80g with 30g remote
20g nano was 8 months old when I took it down.
Its now up again with a 250watt de halide, lol.
All systems run po4<0.1 no3<5.
Has worked well @ 7dkh.
120 is now a 80g

I might have seen your tanks. They look fantastic, great job!

I remember when I started reefing back in the early 90s, Nitrate and Phosphate were kept at 0, never above 1 or 2 on Nitrate and that was the LAW. I had many tanks that were as low as you could go. We didn't have the testing that we do now to see anything but whole digits. We gauge phosphate by the amount of green algae we had.

Yeah, I'm telling you what works for me on the Nitrate. The main reason I keep Nitrate a bit elevated, is to keep Dinoflagelates away. Remember, I started a 100% Acropora system from scratch using CaribSea LifeRock which is "Aragonitic" rock. Supposed to be different than marco rock. Well, it wasn't any different in the cycling and influx of Dinoflagelates, lol.

My Nitrates and Phosphates were 0. When I started bringing it up, just based on a theory I had, they went away. I also tried DinoX by Fauna Marin and let me tell you, there are rumors it kills Acropora and some other corals. Those rumors are 100% true. My ORA red planet started RTNing and looked GONE. I still have it and it is making a slow recovery. It's taken it since December to have it's color back and some polyps, but still not fully.

Don't take it the wrong way @90's reefer, I'm very open minded to other ways and if you're not, you'll limit yourself in life, not only this hobby.

 

[X-37B]

I might have seen your tanks. They look fantastic, great job!

I remember when I started reefing back in the early 90s, Nitrate and Phosphate were kept at 0, never above 1 or 2 on Nitrate and that was the LAW. I had many tanks that were as low as you could go. We didn't have the testing that we do now to see anything but whole digits. We gauge phosphate by the amount of green algae we had.

Yeah, I'm telling you what works for me on the Nitrate. The main reason I keep Nitrate a bit elevated, is to keep Dinoflagelates away. Remember, I started a 100% Acropora system from scratch using CaribSea LifeRock which is "Aragonitic" rock. Supposed to be different than marco rock. Well, it wasn't any different in the cycling and influx of Dinoflagelates, lol.

My Nitrates and Phosphates were 0. When I started bringing it up, just based on a theory I had, they went away. I also tried DinoX by Fauna Marin and let me tell you, there are rumors it kills Acropora and some other corals. Those rumors are 100% true. My ORA red planet started RTNing and looked GONE. I still have it and it is making a slow recovery. It's taken it since December to have it's color back and some polyps, but still not fully.

Don't take it the wrong way @90's reefer, I'm very open minded to other ways and if you're not, you'll limit yourself in life, not only this hobby.

At 65 I have no limits, lol.
Closed minds are the problem with the world in general.

 

[Troylee]

Pics
1 my old 120
2 my 20g nano
3 my 45 frag.
4 80g with 30g remote
20g nano was 8 months old when I took it down.
Its now up again with a 250watt de halide, lol.
All systems run po4<0.1 no3<5.
Has worked well @ 7dkh.
120 is now a 80g

Yeah I highly doubt lighting is a issue here.. I went from a g6 xr15 blue at 80% to a pair of 250w hqi metal halides while still running the XR as a supplement and my acros took off! Zero bleaching or problems!

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Yeah I highly doubt lighting is a issue here.. I went from a g6 xr15 blue at 80% to a pair of 250w hqi metal halides while still running the XR as a supplement and my acros took off! Zero bleaching or problems!

It's an issue when you go from weak leds to very powerful ones. What you did extended the blanket of light. You probably didn't have enough light and the spread wasn't that good with 15s.

Interestingly, MH seems to have an almost healing effect on Coral. I've personally never seen anyone go to MH and have any issues.

 

[Troylee]

It's an issue when you go from weak leds to very powerful ones. What you did extended the blanket of light. You probably didn't have enough light and the spread wasn't that good with 15s.

Interestingly, MH seems to have an almost healing effect on Coral. I've personally never seen anyone go to MH and have any issues.

I’m loving them! So glad I went back to them! The corals love them too… I can blast anything and it just grows!

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I’m loving them! So glad I went back to them! The corals love them too… I can blast anything and it just grows!

You made a wise choice to keep your LEDs too. MH on its own doesn't color up Acros to their potential. When you add in the blue from the LEDs the colors really start coming out. I added my LEDs to MH about 4 to 6 weeks ago and my colors are really showing.

 

[Troylee]

You made a wise choice to keep your LEDs too. MH on its own doesn't color up Acros to their potential. When you add in the blue from the LEDs the colors really start coming out. I added my LEDs to MH about 4 to 6 weeks ago and my colors are really showing.

I’m running 3 radions a couple reefbrite Xho and a pair of 250w 14k phoenix bulbs. I jumped right from the XR 15’s alone and didn’t experience any stn or bleaching events. I’d say either bugs or some kinda alk spike happened with the op.

 

[bushdoc]

This thread is like runaway train and became a discussion between some members what is the best method to run sts reef tank.
First, I think there are many ways to do it successfully and some reefers still run ULNS.
Second, in my limited experience light is usually the main culprit. We seem to like high intensity LEDs, but many LFS are running their frag tanks on low PAR lights. Adjusting frags to higher PAR and different spectrum may take longer then few weeks and SPS get stressed very easily, especially when we also change our tank chemistry, thinking that it might have been the problem.
Whenever I get new frags, STS or LPS, I set my lights on 50-70 PAR for few weeks and then gradually increase intensity.
I did burn many frags before with more aggressive acclimation and assumption that STS need higher PAR.

 

[Zoajohn]

Welp i've kept everything as stable as possible and all acros continue to STN. At this point there's nothing else I can do so they will just die. All montis and literally every other type of coral I have are still thriving. My RR Pink caddy is growing at the tips while wasting away from the base along with every other acro.

Every frag I made has had the same thing happen. STN from the base up.

 

[Dburr1014]

I have seen fuana Marin STN/RTN X.
Not sure if it would help or not. I don't know anyone that has used it.
You must likely have some kind of vibro.
Helicostoma and Philaster from what I have been reading are the most common.
I would start researching and seeing if there has been anyone in the hobby that has used drugs to help with this. Seems like I remember someone using chemiclean?? Not sure. Something to look into.
Have you double checked parameters?

Even the SG. Calibrate and check again.
Have you lowered the intensity of the lights?

 

[Zoajohn]

I have seen fuana Marin STN/RTN X.
Not sure if it would help or not. I don't know anyone that has used it.
You must likely have some kind of vibro.
Helicostoma and Philaster from what I have been reading are the most common.
I would start researching and seeing if there has been anyone in the hobby that has used drugs to help with this. Seems like I remember someone using chemiclean?? Not sure. Something to look into.
Have you double checked parameters?

Even the SG. Calibrate and check again.
Have you lowered the intensity of the lights?

Ciprofloxacin is an antibiotic that people have success with in treating vibrio. That may be my next step. Yes parameters have been roughly the same the entire time. Dkh around 7, CA 420-420, Mag 1250-1300, nitrates and phosphates low but detectable. SG is 35ppt.

I lowered light 5% on radions to 65% schedule intensity. The max par i had at 70% was 400 which isn't that high

 

[Dburr1014]

Ciprofloxacin is an antibiotic that people have success with in treating vibrio. That may be my next step. Yes parameters have been roughly the same the entire time. Dkh around 7, CA 420-420, Mag 1250-1300, nitrates and phosphates low but detectable. SG is 35ppt.

I lowered light 5% on radions to 65% schedule intensity. The max par i had at 70% was 400 which isn't that high

400 par now but you don't know what it was with the other lights, right?

Yes, cipro, that is what it was. Thanks.
If it was me....
I would lower par more, dose the cipro, cross my fingers and pray to the coral gods.