Mastertronic Amazing

[lynn.reef.nerd]

I really like my Mastertronic. Like someone else mentioned, it's a work in progress. They have a few areas that need some work.
The biggest one, and I think a lot of people will agree with me, is the app, or the app/device interaction, is horrendously slow. And if you get ahead of it, one of two thing will happen. At best, if you're lucky, the command will simply be ignored. At worst, you need to start over, which is annoying when you're doing something that requires multiple steps. You really need to be careful to wait for the app (or the device) to react to anything you do before moving on to the next step. Even things like opening the app and waiting for the screen to fully populate before doing anything. Even though the button you need to click is already there, if you don't let it finish, which can be another 10-30 seconds, it's going to be mad at you.
Along with that, if your phone screen turns off, it disconnects from the device. Generally not a big deal, but if you're calibrating something, you need to make sure your phone stays awake or you'll have to start over. That can easily turn, what should take 30 seconds, but on the MT take 15 minutes into a 30 minute project.

Also, calibrating the pumps and needles is ungodly time consuming.

My other issue with the device is that it seems to lack the ability to do more than one thing at a time. I believe each individual thing it does, has it's own procedure/subroutine in the code and doesn't start one the next one until the first one is done.
For example, when you run a test it (from memory, some steps may be missing/incorrect, but it's just for this example):
1)Prime RO Line.
2)Empty RO Vial
3a)Fill RO Vial
3b)Fill syringe
3c)Empty syringe
3d)Empty RO Vial
Repeat Steps 3a, 3b, 3c, 3d three times.
4)Prime tank water line
5)Empty reaction vial
6)Fill reaction vial
7)Move carousal
8)Move needle to reagent vial
9)Stir reagent
10)Draw up reagent
11)Move needle to reaction vial
12)Empty syringe
13)Move syringe to RO Vial
14a)Fill RO Vial
14b)Fill syringe with RO
14c)Empty syringe
14d)Empty RO Vial
Repeat 14a-d three times
and so on until it's done testing.

IMO, a lot of these steps can be combined with no hardware changes. For example, there's no reason I can see that it can't be filling both the RO and tank water vials at the same time. It *might* only be able to empty one at a time, but they can both be filled. Similarly, one can be filling while the other one is being emptied or having water drawn out of it. Or, it could be moving on to the next step while a vial is just being emptied.
With some extra hardware, like another magnetic stirrer, it could be stirring the reagent while it's doing something else.
I could go on.

Regardless of all that, I really do like it and I think most of the issues I'm seeing should be easily ironed out as it matures.
I do like that, regardless of how long it takes, I essentially just let it do it's thing, whether that means running tests on a schedule and pushing the results to my phone or watching TV while I let it run a test I manually asked it to do is nice. However, there are times when I'm waiting for a test to finish and it's hard no to think that I could have pulled out the Hanna kit and had an answer before this even finished cleaning the vials and syringe.


Oh, one more thing I'd really like to see with the app. The ability to queue multiple (manual) tests. If I want to test, for example, alk, calc and nitrate. I have to run the test for alk, wait for it to fully finish, as in the machine has to be back to 'idle' before requesting the next one. It would be nice if I could just request them all at one and it would do one and then the other (and in a perfect world, wouldn't clean everything at the end of one test just to clean it all again when the next one begins).

I might be an anomaly, but I don't want to buy an equipment that is "in the works". That's what testers are for. If I am going to spend over $1k on a product, I really want most if not all of the kinks to have been fixed. If there are unforeseen issues, that it can be fix quickly.

 

[sculpin01]

One of the major issues with the Mastertronic is that it uses off-the-shelf test kits, which has been a bit of an issue as some companies have had problems with quality control.

Also, it really needs to come with PTFE coated septum’s for all reagent bottles, as some reagents (nitric acid, notably) destroy the silicone septum’s causing contamination and incorrect results.

Of note, Alkatronic and Dosetronic have been quite good once I was up and running with them.

 

[Joe31415]

I might be an anomaly, but I don't want to buy an equipment that is "in the works". That's what testers are for. If I am going to spend over $1k on a product, I really want most if not all of the kinks to have been fixed. If there are unforeseen issues, that it can be fix quickly.

It works, my complaints are mainly about the speed at which it works. Luckily, for the most part, that isn't really a big deal. If you have it running tests while you're watching TV or sleeping or at work, it doesn't really matter if it takes 45 minutes.

However, I agree with you. I've posted quite a bit on one of the Hydros threads about how unhappy I've been with their firmware. The Mastertronic might be slow, the Hydros simply does not work properly, and some of the problems it does have could easily crash your tank or flood your house.

One of the major issues with the Mastertronic is that it uses off-the-shelf test kits, which has been a bit of an issue as some companies have had problems with quality control.

See, I like that part. I like being able to grab reagents from BRS or Amazon or my LFS or wherever. I like that Mastertronic doesn't have the power to decide to gouge us on the price of their reagents if they wanted to. I've never seen, at least I don't think I've seen, Trident reagents in an LFS, but they all have API or Salifert or whatever. In fact, I'm sure they could start producing their own (or rebadging someone elses) and simply update the firmware to use it.

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

It works, my complaints are mainly about the speed at which it works. Luckily, for the most part, that isn't really a big deal. If you have it running tests while you're watching TV or sleeping or at work, it doesn't really matter if it takes 45 minutes.

However, I agree with you. I've posted quite a bit on one of the Hydros threads about how unhappy I've been with their firmware. The Mastertronic might be slow, the Hydros simply does not work properly, and some of the problems it does have could easily crash your tank or flood your house.


See, I like that part. I like being able to grab reagents from BRS or Amazon or my LFS or wherever. I like that Mastertronic doesn't have the power to decide to gouge us on the price of their reagents if they wanted to. I've never seen, at least I don't think I've seen, Trident reagents in an LFS, but they all have API or Salifert or whatever. In fact, I'm sure they could start producing their own (or rebadging someone elses) and simply update the firmware to use it.

Oh yeah ... I def had my issues with Hydros but the good thing about them is that they were always willing to help and solve the issue for me. That was not the case with FT. Long story.

I agree with you on the off the shelf. That was one of the appeal that got me to buy it. It's nice to have options.

 

[Dave-T]

I really like my Mastertronic. Like someone else mentioned, it's a work in progress. They have a few areas that need some work.
The biggest one, and I think a lot of people will agree with me, is the app, or the app/device interaction, is horrendously slow. And if you get ahead of it, one of two thing will happen. At best, if you're lucky, the command will simply be ignored. At worst, you need to start over, which is annoying when you're doing something that requires multiple steps. You really need to be careful to wait for the app (or the device) to react to anything you do before moving on to the next step. Even things like opening the app and waiting for the screen to fully populate before doing anything. Even though the button you need to click is already there, if you don't let it finish, which can be another 10-30 seconds, it's going to be mad at you.
Along with that, if your phone screen turns off, it disconnects from the device. Generally not a big deal, but if you're calibrating something, you need to make sure your phone stays awake or you'll have to start over. That can easily turn, what should take 30 seconds, but on the MT take 15 minutes into a 30 minute project.

Also, calibrating the pumps and needles is ungodly time consuming.

My other issue with the device is that it seems to lack the ability to do more than one thing at a time. I believe each individual thing it does, has it's own procedure/subroutine in the code and doesn't start one the next one until the first one is done.
For example, when you run a test it (from memory, some steps may be missing/incorrect, but it's just for this example):
1)Prime RO Line.
2)Empty RO Vial
3a)Fill RO Vial
3b)Fill syringe
3c)Empty syringe
3d)Empty RO Vial
Repeat Steps 3a, 3b, 3c, 3d three times.
4)Prime tank water line
5)Empty reaction vial
6)Fill reaction vial
7)Move carousal
8)Move needle to reagent vial
9)Stir reagent
10)Draw up reagent
11)Move needle to reaction vial
12)Empty syringe
13)Move syringe to RO Vial
14a)Fill RO Vial
14b)Fill syringe with RO
14c)Empty syringe
14d)Empty RO Vial
Repeat 14a-d three times
and so on until it's done testing.

IMO, a lot of these steps can be combined with no hardware changes. For example, there's no reason I can see that it can't be filling both the RO and tank water vials at the same time. It *might* only be able to empty one at a time, but they can both be filled. Similarly, one can be filling while the other one is being emptied or having water drawn out of it. Or, it could be moving on to the next step while a vial is just being emptied.
With some extra hardware, like another magnetic stirrer, it could be stirring the reagent while it's doing something else.
I could go on.

Regardless of all that, I really do like it and I think most of the issues I'm seeing should be easily ironed out as it matures.
I do like that, regardless of how long it takes, I essentially just let it do it's thing, whether that means running tests on a schedule and pushing the results to my phone or watching TV while I let it run a test I manually asked it to do is nice. However, there are times when I'm waiting for a test to finish and it's hard no to think that I could have pulled out the Hanna kit and had an answer before this even finished cleaning the vials and syringe.


Oh, one more thing I'd really like to see with the app. The ability to queue multiple (manual) tests. If I want to test, for example, alk, calc and nitrate. I have to run the test for alk, wait for it to fully finish, as in the machine has to be back to 'idle' before requesting the next one. It would be nice if I could just request them all at one and it would do one and then the other (and in a perfect world, wouldn't clean everything at the end of one test just to clean it all again when the next one begins).

I'm thinking of getting a Mastertronic, but this post is scaring me. I am an engineer, and do enjoy tinkering. But I get irritated with software that has annoying flaws that should seemingly be easy to fix. When you say that it's a work in progress, how long have they been working on it? Hasn't the product been out for a while at this point? Have they been fixing/improving it since it came out? Do you get any sense when/if the deficiencies you point out will be fixed? Because it does sound like you make good suggestions, and they should be able to fix these things in reasonable time, at least some of them.

 

[Enderg60]

Ive been running my mastertronic for about 9 months now doing tests twice a week. Its run over 300 test so far and the only issue I have had is the B pumps hose splitting. While slow the support has been fine, Im getting a replacement sent under warranty. Due to the slow response time I ended up buying a replacement hose, but now Ill have a spare. Not really a big deal.

It tells me when I need to do maintenance which is pretty easy so far, and just works.

The only problems I have with it are the ap is RIDICULOUSLY slow and replacement parts are VERY overpriced.

I got the unit to test it out on my QT system while I build my new tank. I like it so much Ive already gotten a Alkatronic, dosetronit and another mastertronic for the new system.

Yes it requires work to keep running. Yes you will spend more money on test kits because its just so easy to do a test. But the consistency of data you get makes it worth it to me.

 

[scottsweet]

I just purchased a MT about 2 weeks ago so far so good.
Question what is everyone's testing schedule like?

I personally test my P04, N04, Iodine and dKH weekly... I test my Mg about monthly - Mg doesn't change all that much. I manually check my Ca monthly or so to ensure it is inline with the dKH.

I am mostly interested in the trends and making sure I change my GFO when the P04 starts to climb. The dKH is to verify my Alkatronic is right.

 

[Jon's Reef]

I have only had the machine for a few weeks, but the support on the FB page (and the e-mail) has been great. NO middle person... straight from Eric and Jonas. Whether it is networking, chemistry, physical machine... they actively support the community.

When comparing the MT to the other mentioned solutions, the thing to remember is that you can choose whatever you want it to test. The only limit is the number of reagent bottles. It is not locked into Alk, Ca, Mg... You can do NO3 and PO4... they recently added Fe and I.... NH4 is an option also. In addition, they have been adding support for multiple kits (RS, API, etc).

The test method may seem long... but it is very thorough. Properly rinsing the needle... ensuring the reagents are mixed... etc. The value is not in the "press button... get answer"... rather it is in the schedule tests and watch the trends over days/ weeks/ months.

If you are only interested in Alk, an acid titration machine is 100% the right solution. But if you are interested in the other aspects of your tank... in particular NO3 and PO4... there is no other solution on the market (I suppose you can get a reefbot).

 

[scottsweet]

I'm thinking of getting a Mastertronic, but this post is scaring me. I am an engineer, and do enjoy tinkering. But I get irritated with software that has annoying flaws that should seemingly be easy to fix. When you say that it's a work in progress, how long have they been working on it? Hasn't the product been out for a while at this point? Have they been fixing/improving it since it came out? Do you get any sense when/if the deficiencies you point out will be fixed? Because it does sound like you make good suggestions, and they should be able to fix these things in reasonable time, at least some of them.

It is fine...buy it and read the manual. I just think people are expecting perfection. I have seen the evolution of this stuff over the years and am quite tolerant of some variations of things.

 

[scottsweet]

I posted inquiring on who would buy the consumables ...only 6 people have responded...

Who will buy Mastertronic Supplies?

We all know that the supplies for the MT are ridiculously overpriced and availability is up for question in the Americas. I have a buddy willing to make stuff available if people really want it. It is an investment, especially for the needles and tubing because to get a good unit price, you...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Joe31415]

I'm thinking of getting a Mastertronic, but this post is scaring me. I am an engineer, and do enjoy tinkering. But I get irritated with software that has annoying flaws that should seemingly be easy to fix. When you say that it's a work in progress, how long have they been working on it? Hasn't the product been out for a while at this point? Have they been fixing/improving it since it came out? Do you get any sense when/if the deficiencies you point out will be fixed? Because it does sound like you make good suggestions, and they should be able to fix these things in reasonable time, at least some of them.

I have no answers for any of those questions. About all I can tell you is that it does work. The problems that I've encountered are generally related to how slow it is.

I got the unit to test it out on my QT system while I build my new tank. I like it so much Ive already gotten a Alkatronic, dosetronit and another mastertronic for the new system.

FWIW, I'm running this on my main tank. From time to time I want to test my QT. I just fill a small container with QT water and toss the intake hose in it, run the tests and put the hose back in the DT. If you track your numbers, just make sure to delete those from the table so they don't skew your trends.

It is fine...buy it and read the manual. I just think people are expecting perfection. I have seen the evolution of this stuff over the years and am quite tolerant of some variations of things.

 

[Enderg60]

Im running it on a coral QT, since the coral loads are constantly change its really nice to see the changes and make adjustments to the dosing. Thus I decided to just get another one.

 

[Joe31415]

A day or two ago I opened the door of the mastertronic to find a big puddle under the pumps. Keeping an eye on what was going on, I noticed that Pump C (the one on the left) was leaking. I emailed the Focustronic and asked them about getting the pump head replaced (under warranty, it's only a few months old) and suggested maybe they could replace all three pump heads as I see this is a known issue.

They got back to me a few hours later, asked which pump, asked for the serial number but then said "you can get a spare hose". I'm hoping/assuming they meant 'the hose can be replaced' as opposed to 'you can go buy a new hose'.

I wrote back to them that Pump C was leaking and Pump B had been squeaking for the last few days.
Luckily, those two pumps are RO in and RO out, so neither of them have to be precisely measured, they just have to pump enough water into the vial for the syringe to draw in the correct amount of water and pump all the water back out of the RO vial.
Well, now both pumps are leaking.
I stuffed a paper towel under the pumps so at least I could keep running tests, but that backfired on me. It had been working for quite a few tests, I just had to keep an eye on it and change it regularly. But then I walked away from it. When I came back, I found that the wet paper towel had gotten between the needle and a reagent bottle. It was now titrating into the reaction vial, with a paper towel stuck on the syringe and the needle completely bent out of shape.

Now, not running any tests for a few days until this gets cleared up isn't really a big deal. But I was planning to pull samples for an ICP test today and I like to run all the tests I have available to me when I do that so I can get a complete picture (and verify my numbers against theirs).

 

[Enderg60]

yup if you pop the head off you will find a split in the tubing. Its the same thing that happened to by B pump. If your unit is under a year old they should send you a replacement free.

 

[monkiboy]

A day or two ago I opened the door of the mastertronic to find a big puddle under the pumps. Keeping an eye on what was going on, I noticed that Pump C (the one on the left) was leaking. I emailed the Focustronic and asked them about getting the pump head replaced (under warranty, it's only a few months old) and suggested maybe they could replace all three pump heads as I see this is a known issue.

They got back to me a few hours later, asked which pump, asked for the serial number but then said "you can get a spare hose". I'm hoping/assuming they meant 'the hose can be replaced' as opposed to 'you can go buy a new hose'.

I wrote back to them that Pump C was leaking and Pump B had been squeaking for the last few days.
Luckily, those two pumps are RO in and RO out, so neither of them have to be precisely measured, they just have to pump enough water into the vial for the syringe to draw in the correct amount of water and pump all the water back out of the RO vial.
Well, now both pumps are leaking.
I stuffed a paper towel under the pumps so at least I could keep running tests, but that backfired on me. It had been working for quite a few tests, I just had to keep an eye on it and change it regularly. But then I walked away from it. When I came back, I found that the wet paper towel had gotten between the needle and a reagent bottle. It was now titrating into the reaction vial, with a paper towel stuck on the syringe and the needle completely bent out of shape.

Now, not running any tests for a few days until this gets cleared up isn't really a big deal. But I was planning to pull samples for an ICP test today and I like to run all the tests I have available to me when I do that so I can get a complete picture (and verify my numbers against theirs).

How often are you testing that the tubing split so soon within only a few months?

 

[Joe31415]

How often are you testing that the tubing split so soon within only a few months?

I got it in mid May and the app says I've done 282 tests. That's works out to about 2-3 per day.
But that was my point. I haven't done that much and certainly haven't had it long enough that I thought this could be a concern. I've got 3 other X1 pumps that appear to use the same head (and probably the same motor) that I use for dosing and they haven't had any issues yet.

It also doesn't seem to be a unique (to me) issue.

Proposed fix for leaking Kamoer pumpheads (including Mastertronic)

Hi everyone, Many of us with Kamoer KXF or X1 style pumpheads have experienced leakages in the tubing inside the pumphead. These pumpheads are also used in the Focustronic Mastertonic. This is my attempt at a fix. You need to use a 3D printer to print two of these spacers or washers per...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[monkiboy]

I got it in mid May and the app says I've done 282 tests. That's works out to about 2-3 per day.
But that was my point. I haven't done that much and certainly haven't had it long enough that I thought this could be a concern. I've got 3 other X1 pumps that appear to use the same head (and probably the same motor) that I use for dosing and they haven't had any issues yet.

It also doesn't seem to be a unique (to me) issue.

Proposed fix for leaking Kamoer pumpheads (including Mastertronic)

Hi everyone, Many of us with Kamoer KXF or X1 style pumpheads have experienced leakages in the tubing inside the pumphead. These pumpheads are also used in the Focustronic Mastertonic. This is my attempt at a fix. You need to use a 3D printer to print two of these spacers or washers per...

www.reef2reef.com

no, it does not seem to be a unique issue. are you on the facebook group? check out there as well and perhaps ask for feedback. I am looking to invest in the whole ecosystem from focustronic so have been reading on there as well.

 

[Joe31415]

Something else that this could really use is some type of "STOP" or "Cancel Test" button.
It would be nice when something is going wrong, to be able to get it to stop in it's tracks and then give you manual control over the movements. Yesterday, for example, when everything went to hell (pumps leaking, needles bent etc) I had no way to stop it. I wasn't entirely sure if I could simply unplug it. I ended up putting something metal on the leak detector, but even the 'leak' wasn't registered until it finished whatever it was doing, which was another 5 or 10 minutes.

What I *wanted* to do was manually (via the app) raise the needle and deal with it, then empty/clean both vials. I couldn't do that until I told it I cleared the leak (and then rebooted it), and then it went into a mode for emptying and cleaning after a failed test. But it would still be nice to have had manual control over it.

 

[anthonymckay]

I haven't had any issues with my Mastertronic & Alkatronic as far as the hardware goes, really been loving it. There are a few things I wish they'd address in the app though.

"Extra Measurement" should ask you to confirm with an "Ok / Cancel" alert before starting. I can't count the number of times I've accidentally hit that on page and fired of a test without any way to cancel it.

The graphs tend to be rather useless. 7 days is a relatively small window to look at for tests that you're only doing 1-2 times per week. A customs date range for graphs, or at the very least a 30-day view would be much more useful to view trends.

I think they could GREATLY improve their client-server interaction design they have implemented. It's ridiculously slow with often no acknowledgment of success/failure when commands are sent to the unit.

 

[Joe31415]

I think they could GREATLY improve their client-server interaction design they have implemented. It's ridiculously slow with often no acknowledgment of success/failure when commands are sent to the unit.

At least since it can't queue commands, you can hit the button multiple times and it'll only run the test once. And, you're right, there's nothing to acknowledge it received your command, but if you go back to the screen for the device, the status will show "testing ___" instead of "idle", but even that takes a minute or so to update.

I still think it would be nice to be able to queue commands. If I want to run 4 or 5 tests, I'm going to have to babysit this for a 2+ hours. I'd love to be able to request them all and let it run through them. Similarly with the scheduled tests. Because the tests take so long, I understand why you can only schedule one per hour. But how about if, instead of, 8:00 Alk; 9:00 Calcium; 10:00 Phosphate, you could say "at 8:00 run Alk, calc and phosphate, one after the other". And even better, if it was aware it was doing this wouldn't waste time cleaning everything twice between subsequent tests.