Mc. Cain VP choice. what do you think?

[Reef Pets]

Which is worse, murdering an unborn fetus or abusing and murdering a child born to incapable parents? How many people suffer their lifetimes from being raised in super disfunctional famlies instead of being born to people that actually care about them. So many times my Mom has said her parents should never have had children and I've seen in person the emotional struggles she's had to overcome in order to lead a normal life.

Better to have a choice instead of treating a child like a mistake and resent them for it.

I completely agree with that.

 

[rdvab]

Which is worse, murdering an unborn fetus or abusing and murdering a child born to incapable parents? How many people suffer their lifetimes from being raised in super disfunctional famlies instead of being born to people that actually care about them. So many times my Mom has said her parents should never have had children and I've seen in person the emotional struggles she's had to overcome in order to lead a normal life.

Better to have a choice instead of treating a child like a mistake and resent them for it.

It is better to have a choice ,and the choice is whether or not to have sex ,not whether or not to kill an unborn child!

And before you even go there I am not from a very loving family but from a very disfunctional one,I was raised by a mom with drug addictions and electroshock therapy.....blahblahblah and no it is not right to abuse unwanted kids and even kill them .Like I said murder is murder born child or unborn child

 

[chuck22689]

ok lets see if we can actually get people thinking. i know why abortion is a hot button topic and why its brought up in every election. because some many people are so adamant about it but let me suggest what should be done. now remember this is just my humble opinion. but maybe we should look at another issue. that issue is ADOPTION. if we could fix the adoption system in this country i think the abortion topic would not be such a big issue. i find it disgusting that of the three familys that i know who have adopted two of them had to go out of the country to do it. our gov. is to bussy telling good people they cant have kids. while crackheads get nocked up and leave thier babies in dumpsters. we could work on this and it would be more productive tahn telling people what to do with thier bodies. but then what would the media have to bash politicans on. ok rant over sorry if i insulted anyone

 

[Reef Goddess]

Yeah, the adoption process here is awful. Perfectly good parents that would love to have these abandoned kids, but what does the state do? Puts them with DCF and they end up with foster parents who many times end up abusing the poor kids. Its nuts, just like a lot of our gov't.

That being said, it is good to have the option to get the morning after pill or abortion if need be. Accidents don't just happen from unprotected sex, they happen when you use cheap condoms or if the pill fails 1% of women, etc.

Guys are lucky, you all can do it as much as you want without having to worry about getting pregnant. But its much different for us. We have to make you guys wear condoms or take the pill and the pill can really screw with your hormones, etc. There is a "pill" for men, but guys are so worried about their "boys" that pharmaceutical companies haven't done much because they don't think it will be profitable. We wouldn't have to have an abortion discussion at all if we could get more guys to take the pill or get vasectomies. So its because of you guys that women across the world become "baby murderers". hehe

And if you want to say that everyone should just abstain from sex until they're ready to have children, that's a joke. That or you better have a lot of **** and toys on hand. lol


http://www.usnews.com/blogs/on-men/2008/3/28/should-men-care-that-male-birth-control-options-are-languishing.html

 

[chappy]

Well I watched Palin last night and she was definitely on a teleprompter. If Obama had a teleprompter when he was at the stadium they kept it well hidden.

I'm not interested in getting into an argument on this forum because its laid back and I want to keep it that way. You are very firm in your beliefs and I won't try to change that because I'm pretty sure I can't. However, I have been to LA a few times and it is extremely polluted because it is one of the poorest states in the union (even before the hurricanes), so of course you guys let oil companies drill all over the place and don't care. The oil spill of 400,000 gallons in the Mississippi river is no small matter, but I understand sometimes these things happen.
But both states are very lax on pollution compared to other states. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A03E3DD1039F93BA15752C1A964948260

Florida is not perfect as a state, but we have clean beaches and the water is safe to swim in. LA has so many rigs along the coast, you can easily see them from shore. It may be easy to say you don't have to see them if you live in Ohio, but that's not the case where I live. The majority of FL's money comes from tourism. Installing a few wells sure wouldn't give us them same kind of revenue as tourism does.

Whats wrong with developing cleaner forms of energy such as wind power and water turbines? The only reason our country is stuck in the past not wanting to move out of fossil fuels is because the oil companies make so much money off of us, the last thing they would want is for us to become independent from fossil fuels.

Also, we live in a global community. We will never be independent from that or its oil because that is what makes the world go round. Just like if Mexico decided it no longer wanted to buy products from the U.S. anymore, it wouldn't happen. Too many people depend on jobs that are created in the global market. Europe has been paying way more than we do for gas for decades now, but all the sudden when it costs over $100 to fill our hummers up we start whining.

Did you know that during the oil crisis in the 70's car mileage rose to 21 mpg. Since then with all of our technology vehicle mpg has actually gone down because no one has demanded that car makers raise it. We are all happy to drive huge vehicles that consume tons of gas and only now that the prices have gone up in the last two years have we started to complain and conserve gas. Gas prices have gone up because we're not the only country in the world now that has high demand, India and China are also taking up a big part. So instead of drilling, why can't we make cars that get better gas mileage or have more effective public transportation. Ah yes, because we're Americans and we should be able to pollute and use the environment as much as we want because its our country.

I'm not an ultra liberal tree hugger, but if I care so much about the creatures I keep in my reef tanks and the perfect environment I try to establish than why should I be so selfish not to care about the rest of the world and what we're doing to it? Whether global warming is real or not, there are other very real problems that are occuring in our environment that we as humans are responsible for. I don't want my tanks to be a living museum in a few decades like I fear could happen. There are growing dead zones in the waters all over the world and areas where fishieres are collapsing due to over-fishing. Many species of animanls are being pushed to the brink of extinction by humans over harvesting or destroying their habitat. If you are comfortable with this fine. But if you care very much about your personal reef and keeping your animals happy, how can you be a hypocrite and say its fine to let oil companies drill wherever they want or we should be able to drive whatever vehicle we want and use all the gas we want, because i'm sure that won't increase pollution.

Good reading in case you have your head in the ground. These are real problems not made up by "liberals".

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm
http://www.politickernj.com/vitale-...torium-preserve-endangered-red-knots-advances
http://www.slate.com/id/2082997/
http://www.un.org/events/tenstories/06/story.asp?storyID=800
http://www.southchinasea.org/miranda/index.html
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/farewell-docile-creature-caribbean-monk-seal-declared-extinct.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6063344.stm
http://worldfrontpage.com/moscow_air/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/magazine/22Plastics-t.html


Immigration is a tough problem. I would know, my husband is Dominican, he has gone through the very long and costly process of becoming a U.S. citizen. I don't think people should just be able to jump over the border and become citizens, but at the same time nearly all "americans" came from somewhere else so who are we to judge someone else's plight? I hope none of "them" are reading this thread. I assume you're native american right?

i hope you are kidding about the teleprompter
of course the messiah used 1
here is some videos of the man when his teleprompter stops working
he makes bush seem like a wordsmith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S47sO1TCVmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAN2TJnZuk

 

[Paintguru]

Lots of hilary clinton voters are voting for Mccain now, thats clear.

What are you basing this assumption on? That Clinton voters only look at gender when choosing a candidate?

 

[Snprhed]

I just saw that Cindy Mccains orange outfit the other night cost more than $300,000.

That is just so out of control!

 

[Snprhed]

Reef Goddess, it also kills me that the ones against womens choice are also against sex ed.

 

[EliteReefs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S47sO1TCVmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAN2TJnZuk

hahaha I’m still an undecided but dang those are funny. Funny only because so many people go on and on about how articulate he is.

 

[Azurel]

The main problem with abortion is that the two conflicting parties make it a be all end all game. They make it so hard lined that no one will agree, the solution would be to come together discuss and find ways that we can reduce it to the point that it is a last solution as opposed to for some the first choice solution cause we all know what will happen if it is outlawed. It will go back into that ally ways and garages where women will end up dying as well as the child which is no good and you actually solve nothing in that. So a total banning is not a solution but another problem. You can't solve problems with problems.....Like I said I don't support it but I am not so blind to see in some peoples cases that it isn't a viable option for them as they don't have the beliefs I do. This issue has become so heated that the hatred has built up on both sides that compromise becomes harder.

As far as Sex Ed goes the only reason that has been pushed into the schools is because there are to many parents over the years that don't, didn't want or refused to take the responsibility for their actions to teach their kids about it. Or they don't have the tools or are to embarrassed to teach their kids the responsibility of sex. I personally had no issues as my parents were pretty open about it. So in that case with having a child now I can see that in the future I will have to have the same conversation.


Although some of us don't agree with each other I really want to thank all of you for keeping it civil. I don't think I have seen a thread like this go for 4 pages before it was closed. So I think that in itself is a testament to the quality and personality of the members here.....

I applaud all of you!

Now that I said that let's not start flaming and fighting...LOL

 

[Reef Goddess]

Aw come on no fighting? Not even mud fighting? heehee

My Mom was also very open about sex to me, but let me tell you nothing worked as well at keeping me from fooling around than having to watch those videos in health class of women giving birth or looking at what different std's do. lol
I don't care if giving birth is a "miracle", if someone films me while I'm giving birth the camera is only going to stay on my face and no where else. ;p


Proof that McCain also has a speech impediment. I really think if either candidates are caught having a hard time talking its probably cause they're tired from giving like a million speeches for months on end and really doesn't reflect on them. Whereas Bush is just a dummy that did too much coke. ;p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW22orHxVVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY

 

[fly guy]

oops.....that was supposed to be a search...

haha

 

[Azurel]

Aw come on no fighting? Not even mud fighting? heehee

My Mom was also very open about sex to me, but let me tell you nothing worked as well at keeping me from fooling around than having to watch those videos in health class of women giving birth or looking at what different std's do. lol
I don't care if giving birth is a "miracle", if someone films me while I'm giving birth the camera is only going to stay on my face and no where else. ;p


Proof that McCain also has a speech impediment. I really think if either candidates are caught having a hard time talking its probably cause they're tired from giving like a million speeches for months on end and really doesn't reflect on them. Whereas Bush is just a dummy that did too much coke. ;p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW22orHxVVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY

I will have to admit those pictures of STDs were pretty gross......:EEEEEK

 

[rdvab]

I just saw that Cindy Mccains orange outfit the other night cost more than $300,000.

That is just so out of control!

As opposed to paying say $25 for a polyp the size of a dime?And shipping.

 

[rdvab]

Reef Goddess, it also kills me that the ones against womens choice are also against sex ed.

I am not against womens choices ,I tell women what choices to make all the time!They just don't listen.:biggrin:

And I am not against sex education either ,some people are just not teachable, i've tried.

 

[Reef Goddess]

Here's the exact down-low on Cindy McCain's outfit. I'm sure they're in touch with what the "average" american needs.


Cindy McCain
Oscar de la Renta dress: $3,000
Chanel J12 White Ceramic Watch: $4,500
Three-carat diamond earrings: $280,000
Four-strand pearl necklace: $11,000-$25,000
Shoes, designer unknown: $600
Total: Between $299,100 and $313,100

 

[ConcreteReefer]

I think Palin was a great choice..

This country would go to hell if Obama gets elected :horse:

 

[cparka23]

Did you vote for Bush when you saw him in a T-shirt and blue jeans on the ranch?

What a person wears isn't what makes good fiscal policy. Besides, she's not even running for office. I'll stop stating the obvious, because you know that already. :)

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

It's their money they can spend it as they choose IMO.

 

[Reef Goddess]

I was just doing the break down because I couldn't figure how someone could pay 300k on just a dress unless its going to take you out to a fancy dinner and show you a good time later.0 ;p

None of our politicians on either side of the fence will be able to to truly compare themselves with common lower and middle class americans because most of them are smart, successful, or know the right people that have led them to success/wealth. But even if you have tons of money, it would be helpful if you toned it down a bit while you're trying to play the "everyman" card.