Measuring Kessil A360WE PAR

[DT Prime]

Hi everyone,

I am new to reefing and inexperienced with measuring light strength to boot but wanted to find out what my Kessil A360WE's are putting out. I bought this Biotek Marine par sensor BTM-3000 and then read several threads saying most PAR meters won't work with LED lights and then that Kessils in particular basically can't be measured with them. Can anyone confirm if this is true? Should I even bother opening it and trying or just resell new in the box? Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[mcarroll]

Seems like it'd be a lot of fun to play with, but I'm too price-conscious right now...I'd use it once to get a PAR:lux conversion factor for my $15 (non-submersible, non-connectable) lux meter and let it go.

 

[DT Prime]

Seems like it'd be a lot of fun to play with, but I'm too price-conscious right now...I'd use it once to get a PAR:lux conversion factor for my $15 (non-submersible, non-connectable) lux meter and let it go.

Thanks for chiming in!

Now can you refer me to somewhere I can find out how to do what you're talking about in more detail, since I have no idea what I'm doing :) also I've seen a bunch of threads with people debating whether you can really convert lux to PAR since (they say) they measure different things technically? My goal was to be able to measure PAR levels at different points in the rock work and sand bed for planning coral placements, so I'm up for whatever will let me do that that isn't more than a few hundred. If this thing will I'll hold on to it, already spent the money and wouldn't mind being able to check back on it over time to see if it's consistent!

 

[mcarroll]

Corals don't need to be planned quite like that.

Primarily because they are extremely adaptable – not extremely particular.

Because of this,f you're blasting the top of a normal tank with around 50,000 lux, you really don't need to worry more about light unless you're using a very unusual or inappropriate setup. Less, down to 10,000 lux or even lower, is often fine for corals. More than 50,000 is probably also fine, but more does not seem to be better.

Remember, photosynthetic corals are bottom-of-the-ocean predators of plankton that have recently adapted to photosynthesis via a mutualistic relationship with microbes.

For example:

I run one tank with a Maxspect Razor that gets light peaks around 40,000-50,000 lux. My other tank only gets around 14,000 lux. Both grow about the same stony corals quite well. :) (The second tank probably would probably not grow clams though.)​

The only other time to "worry" about your light is if you're moving a mature coral. You really want to move it to a location with very similar light conditions to were it came from to avoid bleaching and mortality.

You can do your light setups and coral placements with a lux meter, but that's not the only thing you can do with the meter you have. Being USB connected should give you a range of unique capabilities. :)

And like I said, I agree it'd be great fun to play with....if you're not feeling budget conscious, keep and play! :)

 

[Mandrew]

I bought two of those kessils and I'd LOVE to hear what kind of readings you get!

 

[DT Prime]

The only other time to "worry" about your light is if you're moving a mature coral. You really want to move it to a location with very similar light conditions to were it came from to avoid bleaching and mortality.

You can do your light setups and coral placements with a lux meter, but that's not the only thing you can do with the meter you have. Being USB connected should give you a range of unique capabilities. :)

That all makes sense, though I actually would like to be able to potentially move corals as they grow but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. My main goal was to be able to do some detailed measuring and tracking/modeling with it, which is why I was bummed when it seemed like it wouldn't work with the Kessils. Sounds like you think it'll work and I should use it though? Only reason I would sell it would be if the readings wouldn't be useful for my lights specifically.

I bought two of those kessils and I'd LOVE to hear what kind of readings you get!

No worries I will definitely share my findings if/when I can get usable readings!

 

[DT Prime]

Gave it a brief spin this morning, pretty cool gadget! I will post a much more detailed overview separately when I have played with it a lot more, but it does appear to be measuring PAR within the ranges I would have expected. The biotek website seems to suggest models with this body design/coloring aren't designed for LED measuring, but I bought it off foster and smith and now there is a caption on the product page that says "essential lighting accessory for hobbyists employing LED fixtures", which I don't remember when I bought it. Either way hopefully this isn't just coincidence and confirmation bias, since the results were pretty much what I was hoping for!

Here are very brief initial tests results as a sneak peek, underwater readings were converted using biotek calculator and my lights are 2 A360WE's mounted 15" apart and 6.5-7" from water surface and a RSR 250:

-At 65% color and 30% intensity the water surface level PAR is 350-400 directly under light, 150-175 between the two lights, and 30-50 at the far side of tank.

-At 65% color and 85% intensity the water surface level is 1000-11000 directly under light, 300-400 between the two lights, and 75-90 at the far side of the tank.

-Initial/rough underwater readings within 6-8" range around light show PAR between 125-145 at 65%/35% at the highest rock point which is 5-6" below water, 70-90 at about 10-12" below, and 30-50 along the sandbed 16-18" below.

-Initial/rough underwater readings within 6-8" range around light show PAR between 275-325 at 65%/85% at the highest rock point which is 5-6" below water, 200-260 at about 10-12" below, and 140-180 along the sandbed 16-18" below.

I'll definitely post a more accurate and detailed breakdown at some point and update it over time with coral growth (when I actually have some :)). But for anyone like me who has heard anecdotally that Kessils either can't grow SPS well or that they burn things, it would appear both are easily conceivable given the wide range even between 35-85% intensity and the apparent ability to hit the sand bed with high SPS level light. I can definitely see someone with a lot of rock work and a high sand bed having issues since above about 8" there seems to be a fair amount of diffusion, while I actually saw less differences lower in the tank, even in the far lower corners. I definitely feel more confident in my decision to go with them, and so far the biotek monitor is really cool and simple to use!

Hopefully further tests don't reveal what I've seen so far to be false and please remember I am an amatuer, further advice/criticism/skepticism is very welcome :)

 

[Mandrew]

Thanks for that!

 

[Thor2j]

The problem with this PAR meter is that it doesn't measure the blues accurately. Only affordable one on the market is the Apogee 500.

 

[DT Prime]

The problem with this PAR meter is that it doesn't measure the blues accurately. Only affordable one on the market is the Apogee 500.

Can you go into more detail on how that changes the reading or direct me somewhere that does? Thanks!

 

[Thor2j]

Can you go into more detail on how that changes the reading or direct me somewhere that does? Thanks!

All the other meters don't go low enough into the spectrum wave length.

Go to apogee website and there's articles.

 

[andys]

I will tell you that Seneye works great at checking par and it is designed for the blues also.

 

[Bozoman]

BRSTV did PAR testing on various light sources including the Kessil 360W using high quality PAR meters on their 52 Weeks of Reefling. Worth a watch. BRS160 Episode 21. Skip to 17:14 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.

 

[DT Prime]

I will tell you that Seneye works great at checking par and it is designed for the blues also.

Good to know, I looked at those when buying this one and now can't remember why I ended up not going with it, derp. Where abouts in the bay area are you if you don't mind my asking?

 

[andys]

Good to know, I looked at those when buying this one and now can't remember why I ended up not going with it, derp. Where abouts in the bay area are you if you don't mind my asking?

Discovery Bay/Brentwood

 

[DT Prime]

BRSTV did PAR testing on various light sources including the Kessil 360W using high quality PAR meters on their 52 Weeks of Reefling. Worth a watch. BRS160 Episode 21. Skip to 17:14 if you don't want to watch the whole thing.

Nice, would probably be good to see some professionals do it either way :) thanks for the link!

 

[Thor2j]

I will tell you that Seneye works great at checking par and it is designed for the blues also.

From what I've read it's not really that accurate for true par readings. The good thing is you can measure your tank and the numbers are only references so accuracy doesn't matter.

 

[DT Prime]

Discovery Bay/Brentwood

Ah, the east-east bay :) Grew up on the other side of the mountain near Walnut Creek but never made it out quite that far myself. Do you go to any of the Bay Area Reefer events or anything? Been hoping to meet some other hobbyists in the area, so far just know another guy in the city with a JBJ 30 cube.

 

[Bozoman]

The beauty of the Seneye Reef is not as an instrument that can deliver highly accurate PAR, Kelvin, and LUX, but as a reliable, relatively accurate way of measuring light in a tank, among many other things. It puts a tool in the hands of reefers who otherwise probably rely on estimation based on forum posts and the use of their eyes. Eyes great at detecting change but pretty useless as a measuring instrument. It is a very affordable tool that has a great many uses. The fact that many reefers now have this tool to use as a reliable reference guide is amazing.

Now a short rant:
IMO people spend too much time worrying about PAR. This might be easy for me to say being a T5 guy and thus not having to worry about spread much, but corals, even acros, are a lot more adaptable than many reefers seem to believe, and can adapt to many different lighting scenarios relatively quickly. The few exceptions are coral that struggle to adapt to new groups of zooxanthellae, like the birds nest. Spending time worrying about water clarity, stability, and near natural ocean water chemistry levels will have a bigger impact on coral growth and health for most people than chasing the PAR numbers and buying a fixture that can provide 2-3x the amount of PAR that is recommended for even the most light loving coral.
/End rant. Sorry it was slightly off topic.

 

[DT Prime]

Spending time worrying about water clarity, stability, and near natural ocean water chemistry levels will have a bigger impact on coral growth and health for most people than chasing the PAR numbers and buying a fixture that can provide 2-3x the amount of PAR that is recommended for even the most light loving coral.
/End rant. Sorry it was slightly off topic.

If you are ignoring those things in favor of chasing lighting parameters, which I've seen a couple times looking around d on this forum, then absolutely. I'm worrying about all those aspects as well, I'm just always for having more data and those I can already test for and track over time. I don't plan on chasing levels, just want to be able to add them to the overall picture, basically another column in the ol' excel sheet :)

Also I really like some of the birds nests haha.