Melanurus wrasse female in heat?

[HKfshkpr1]

My pair of Melanurus wrasse has been together for just about a week, while she's been in the tank for a year. Since she's much bigger she dominates him. She's matured and fat while he's prob a sub-adult.

Last night she took it to the extreme. She kept "harrassing" him for hours, even bit him a few times. However, when he got close to a rock with her then she wouldn't chase him anymore( he swam off every time though). It "appeared" to me that she's trying to mate, but he's not ready. Tonight she's back to normal. Do these fish mate in capacity? Lay eggs?

 

[evolved]

It "sounds" to me you have two males.
Do you have a picture of them?

 

[Jesterrace]

Yup, pairing wrasses in captivity rarely pans out well as they all tend to turn into males. Wrasses have the ability to switch genders and the largest female tends to mimic dominant male behavior until it does actually transition to male.

 

[eatbreakfast]

That's not spawning behavior. That is one dominant wrasse showing the other wrasse who is boss. 2 or more melanurus together rarely works out.

 

[nereefpat]

"Since she's much bigger she dominates him"
That statement doesn't compute to me. I'm not sure a female can be larger than a male. They start life as juveniles/females, then grow and transition to male.


Since Hunter is too modest to link his own posts...
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/pairing-wrasses-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.3/

 

[eatbreakfast]

It is possible for a male to be smaller than a female since gender is determined by social situations. So in some areas a relatively small fish may have the circumstances to transition, whereas in another area the circumstances may be less favorable, allowing for a female to grow, but not mature.

 

[maroun.c]

yes they do ate in captivity but like said above this is not mating behavior. I had a mating pair for 2-3 years and every night the male would follow the female and flash then theyll swim very clsoe to each other and spawn. as male got very old female got aggressive and in 2 weeks had killed him and transitioned into full male colors.

 

[Jesterrace]

yes they do ate in captivity but like said above this is not mating behavior. I had a mating pair for 2-3 years and every night the male would follow the female and flash then theyll swim very clsoe to each other and spawn. as male got very old female got aggressive and in 2 weeks had killed him and transitioned into full male colors.

Yup, Wrasses establish a mating hierarchy that is very similar to organized criminal organizations. There is a boss with underlings so to speak but the moment there is a perceived weakness or opportunity the underling can take out the boss and become the boss himself and then the cycle keeps repeating itself.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

Thank you everyone!

Sorry I prob did not make it clear that "she" was the only M. wrasse there alone with other fish for a year, before I added the 1/3 smaller male, which is darker and has brighter color. I don't believe she's turned into a male yet because she still looks pale like the day I got her.

Today he has just turned the table on her and started to harrass her already ..........

Hmmmm, after typing the above I checked she'd already went into hiding, may be in the sand. I checked to make sure she had not jumped out........hope they'll get along.

 

[eatbreakfast]

They won't get along.

You should rehome one.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

"Since she's much bigger she dominates him"
That statement doesn't compute to me. I'm not sure a female can be larger than a male. They start life as juveniles/females, then grow and transition to male.


Since Hunter is too modest to link his own posts...
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/pairing-wrasses-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.3/

That's why I said," they've been toghether for a week".

 

[evolved]

Sorry I prob did not make it clear that "she" was the only M. wrasse there alone with other fish for a year, before I added the 1/3 smaller male, which is darker and has brighter color. I don't believe she's turned into a male yet because she still looks pale like the day I got her.

This really doesn't have much bearing. And actually, the fact it was alone for a year just makes it more likely that it's a transitional male.

They won't get along.

You should rehome one.

I do agree.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

It is possible for a male to be smaller than a female since gender is determined by social situations. So in some areas a relatively small fish may have the circumstances to transition, whereas in another area the circumstances may be less favorable, allowing for a female to grow, but not mature.

The simpliest reason why he could be smaller is because he's much younger.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

Update: good! after going to bed early last night and missed dinner, the female came out this morning as usual. The 2 even swim inches apart and act like casual friends. They ate breakfast as usual.

One factor that "may" have prevented her change of sex was that she's often chased by the Maroon clown( I never expected the Maroon would "hate" all the wrasses and hardly ever bothers others). Part of the reason why I added the male was because I wanted to distribute the aggression. Come to think of it: those 2 only showed aggression in the evening, when the Maroon is more mellow.

Will definitely keep watching them.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

This really doesn't have much bearing. And actually, the fact it was alone for a year just makes it more likely that it's a transitional male.

I do agree.

I agreed with you guys too. On March 31 the smaller male somehow intimidated the female into hiding. The next day the female came back out. Before the tank light came on both were harassed by the Maroon Clown. But after the tank light came on the Hippo Tang and the PBT started to "herd" the Maroon to one corner. That's when a big fight broke out between the 2 wrasses.

They fought for over 15 minutes, even locked jaws a few times. I tried but failed to catch either one, but my action did cause them to break up. Since then the female has resumed her dominate role, often displays her fins at him. And although the male lost a piece of dorsal fin and has acted like the subodinate, he's gained his respect(?) and has never got bitten again.

They have "co-existed" for 11 days now. She just acts like a nagging wife, lol! ( I still don't think she's turned into a male because she still has the light color like the day I got her a year ago). I anticipate when the male gets bigger in a few months they may have another confrontation. But right now their relationship is not bad...........

 

[evolved]

I agreed with you guys too. On March 31 the smaller male somehow intimidated the female into hiding. The next day the female came back out. Before the tank light came on both were harassed by the Maroon Clown. But after the tank light came on the Hippo Tang and the PBT started to "herd" the Maroon to one corner. That's when a big fight broke out between the 2 wrasses.

They fought for over 15 minutes, even locked jaws a few times. I tried but failed to catch either one, but my action did cause them to break up. Since then the female has resumed her dominate role, often displays her fins at him. And although the male lost a piece of dorsal fin and has acted like the subodinate, he's gained his respect(?) and has never got bitten again.

They have "co-existed" for 11 days now. She just acts like a nagging wife, lol! ( I still don't think she's turned into a male because she still has the light color like the day I got her a year ago). I anticipate when the male gets bigger in a few months they may have another confrontation. But right now their relationship is not bad...........

Perhaps I should be more blunt - you do not have a "female" - you have two males. They might both be transitional males, but you have two males. The behavior you're talking about is two males fighting for dominance - a male and female DO NOT interact this way.
Remove one fish, or else your inactions will eventually result in one dead victim.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/pairing-wrasses-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.3/

 

[nereefpat]

How about some pictures?

 

[Jesterrace]

Perhaps I should be more blunt - you do not have a "female" - you have two males. They might both be transitional males, but you have two males. The behavior you're talking about is two males fighting for dominance - a male and female DO NOT interact this way.
Remove one fish, or else your inactions will eventually result in one dead victim.
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/pairing-wrasses-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.3/

Unfortunately some folks have a hard time understanding that Wrasses don't do conventional male and female pairs or the fact that in captivity most Wrasses default to male and as such a male and female "pair" is more often than not a complete failure. I foolishly attempted to do this at one point with my Melanurus. For better or worse my Male developed ich or velvet and died before I got to see how they would interact more but the established juvie sure didn't seem to care much for it for the limited time it was there.

 

[HKfshkpr1]

Update: it's been 5 months since I added the smaller male.........

First I want to say it's "not" that I don't want to take your advice and separate them. The tank's too big and they're too fast for me. To tear the tank apart would cause a lot of stress to my other valueable fish, not to mention a lot of work...........

Slowly but surely, the larger female has gained color and now has almost the same color as the smaller male................

Strangely they get along fine "before" the tank light comes on at 4pm, when the larger one would get very aggressive. It would not take long before the smaller one dives into the sand. This routine has lasted for 3 months already. The smaller one gets out at least an hour earlier so he gets food, plus another meal before the tank light comes on. So health wise he's fine.

So far it seems that the larger one is unable to "locate" where the smaller one sleeps. What if he finds him?

 

[mattzang]

use a fish trap or the bottle trap method