Messed up cycle..

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Hey there! I think I messed up my tank cycle a bit. I started cycling back in July, but school got busy so I didn’t test very often. When I did test, I just kept adding ammonia and would check the next day to see if it dropped to 0 ppm. I also barely did water changes, and only did one recently where I changed 10 gallons out of my 20-gallon tank. Right now my nitrates are around 20–50 ppm and my ammonia still isn’t fully at zero, sitting at around 0.25ppm. What should I do next? I was thinking about doing a big water change and adding another bottle of Fritz Turbo Start. Thanks!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Your tank is cycled. I assume you have a decent amount of rock in the system...

If you're using an API ammonia test, 0.25 is basically 0 harmful ammonia (there are 2 "types" that our hobby tests measure - free ammonia and ammonium. Most test kits measure total ammonia, and the proportion of the harmful, free ammonia, is quite small.)

 

[KrisReef]

The ammonia test is API?

If yes, that is probably the source for detecting 0.25 ammonia, and the actual level is more than likely zero. The presence of nitrates is indicative of a cycled system, and is often reported as a broken cycle on this site

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Go ahead and add a fish or 2.

 

[BryanM]

"Are around" with that big of a range is .... suspect.

 

[twentyleagues]

I am as well going to guess API tests. With testable nitrate in that "range" it is cycled and the ammonia is inaccurate.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Your tank is cycled. I assume you have a decent amount of rock in the system...

If you're using an API ammonia test, 0.25 is basically 0 harmful ammonia (there are 2 "types" that our hobby tests measure - free ammonia and ammonium. Most test kits measure total ammonia, and the proportion of the harmful, free ammonia, is quite small.)

Oh okay, thanks for the input! I’m using a RedSea test kit

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

"Are around" with that big of a range is .... suspect.

Sorry, the ReadSea test kit goes from 20ppm to 50ppm, and it’s somewhere inbetween those.

 

[twentyleagues]

Oh okay, thanks for the input! I’m using a RedSea test kit

I am unsure of Redseas ammonia accuracy I know their alk, calc and possibly mag seem pretty good. Still going on time frame and testable nitrate you are good.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

For the overall replies, I’ll guess my cycle is done. Is there any way to check this without adding more ammonia?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your tank is cycled. I would not worry about out further tests. I wouldn’t worry about nitrates at all and wouldn’t waste the water on a pointless water change at this point.

Nitrates are not harmful to marine fish at even astronomically high levels.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey there! I think I messed up my tank cycle a bit. I started cycling back in July, but school got busy so I didn’t test very often. When I did test, I just kept adding ammonia and would check the next day to see if it dropped to 0 ppm. I also barely did water changes, and only did one recently where I changed 10 gallons out of my 20-gallon tank. Right now my nitrates are around 20–50 ppm and my ammonia still isn’t fully at zero, sitting at around 0.25ppm. What should I do next? I was thinking about doing a big water change and adding another bottle of Fritz Turbo Start. Thanks!

You may have false readings and often especially of using API kit, I recommend taking a water sample to an LFS that does not use api tests and see what readings they come up with in comparison to yours. When your ammonia is steady at zero and nitrate steady at 20 or below, both for 5 days - You are cycled

 

[BeanAnimal]

You may have false readings and often especially of using API kit, I recommend taking a water sample to an LFS that does not use api tests and see what readings they come up with in comparison to yours. When your ammonia is steady at zero and nitrate steady at 20 or below, both for 5 days - You are cycled

Respectfully, vette, do you ever bother reading the responses in these cycle threads before posting your boilerplate “API sucks, get your LFS to test your water?”

This is the second or third thread in as many days where an OP is headed in the right direction with sound cycle advice and you ignore the status and post your spiel, irrelevant to what has been discussed, adding noise and confusion. Sorry, to be so blunt, I love you, but read first and don’t undermine good and factual advice.

1 - He is using RedSea, not API
2 - API is not as error prone as you make them out to be.
3 - At any reasonable pH the level reported is not toxic.
4 - he clearly indicated that he has repeatedly dumped ammonia in, showing the system is processing it. Otherwise the reading would be several (if not tens of) ppm.
5 - many LFS use API test kits and…
6 - the average LFS employee is no more qualified or skilled at a water test than a home aquarist — and arguably many are less skilled or qualified.
7 - margin of error in the specific kit doesn’t matter as long as the high ppm ammonia concentration is headed toward zero. It doesn’t need to be dead 0.

Nitrates don’t matter and ammonia does not have to be dead zero. The system is clearly processing ammonia.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Your tank is cycled. I would not worry about out further tests. I wouldn’t worry about nitrates at all and wouldn’t waste the water on a pointless water change at this point.

Nitrates are not harmful to marine fish at even astronomically high levels.

Oh yeah, I’m not worried about the nitrate for the fish, just planning for when I add coral.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

I’m going to my LFS today to get a fish, so hopefully all goes well! Thanks all for the help.

 

[dinosaur_1552]

Imo there is zero point assuming you are cycled when you have all the tools to check it in 24hrs.

I would get to a point where you add 1-2ppm ammonia, then immediately check if your test shows it at 1-2, then check if it goes down in a day to 0.25 or below, and that you have 0 nitrites as well. If yes, then you will know it for sure that you are cycled.

If you already had this above done, then you are likely cycled, if not, I would do it to get a confirmation, it costs nothing just 24 hrs and gives 100% certanity.

Whatever test kit you have is gonna be likely good enough for this.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I just kept adding ammonia and would check the next day to see if it dropped to 0 ppm. I also barely did water changes....
... sitting at around 0.25ppm.

Imo there is zero point assuming you are cycled when you have all the tools to check it in 24h

I would get to a point where you add 1-2ppm ammonia...if it goes down in a day to 0.25 or below

Already done.

, and that you have 0 nitrites as well.

That part really doesn't matter. All that we care about is ammonia processing. Nitrite may still be present for a while, it is harmless.


While it is possible that heterotrophic bacteria are doing some of the heavy lifting, as long as a fish or other food sources is added, then the nitrifiers will continue to expand.

 

[dinosaur_1552]

Already done.

Well, he isn't specifically saying it dropped to zero, he just said he added ammonia and "would check the next day to see if it dropped to 0 ppm."

Where is the result of these checks stated, did it then drop to 0?

And more importantly did he measue ammonia levels after adding it to see it dropping from 2ppm or whatver to 0.25, did he dose ammonia properly to start with?

That part really doesn't matter. All that we care about is ammonia processing. Nitrite may still be present for a while, it is harmless.

It does, nitrite also can be deadly on fish, yes, at a much higher concentration which is likely never achieved in fish tanks, but also clowns won't die from that 1ppm ammonia. In many big tanks you could just chuck 2 clowns in first day and with sporadic feedings they could easily survive that 2-3 weeks until ammonia is getting processed - so then why measure ammonia at all?

Why cutting corners and assuming things based on half sentences, when things could be done properly with zero effort.

He himself saying he messed up the cycle, why tell him don't bother, the proper advice is that if you are unsure and you have all the tools to check and it costs nothing to check, then check.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Well, he isn't specifically saying it dropped to zero, he just said he added ammonia and "would check the next day to see if it dropped to 0 ppm."

check if it goes down in a day to 0.25 or below

Are you looking for 0 or 0.25 or below? Aside from contradicting yourself to argue with me, the answer is that it doesn't need to be dead 0 for us to determine that ammonia is being processed.

Applying some basic contextual logic.
He said:

I started in July
I didn’t test very often.
I just kept adding ammonia
I also barely did water changes
still isn’t fully at zero
sitting at around 0.25ppm.

We can reasonably conclude:
The tank has had water in for 3 or more months.
He kept dumping ammonia in.
The tank is sitting at 0.25 ppm ammonia.
He has 20+ ppm of nitrates.
The tank is cycled, otherwise the ammonia concentration would be insanely high.

Where is the result of these checks stated, did it then drop to 0?

it dropped to 0.25 which is close enough within error of a test kit for the purpose here. Some number above 1 ppm heading toward 0 is what we are looking for. The absolute accuracy is not important.

It does, nitrite also can be deadly on fish, yes, at a much higher concentration which is likely never achieved in fish tanks,

If you admit that it is not toxic at any reasonable level and there is no reasonable way to reach a toxic level in a marine tank, then why mention it as deadly or even worry about it?

but also clowns won't die from that 1ppm ammonia. In many big tanks you could just chuck 2 clowns in first day and with sporadic feedings they could easily survive that 2-3 weeks until ammonia is getting processed - so then why measure ammonia at all?

That is a straw man argument:
We measure ammonia because that is what we are processing and it can easily be at toxic levels during the initial phase of cycling.

Nitrite and Nitrite are not toxic to marine fish in ay reasonable (or unreasonable) context. What we care about is seeing ammonia dropping. That fact that he diminished ammonia and is seeing nitrates negates the need to check or worry about nitrite. I would personally no bother checking for either nitrite or nitrate.

Why cutting corners and assuming things based on half sentences, when things could be done properly with zero effort.

What corners were cut? While he may not be doing things your preferred way, that doesn't mean he is cutting corners or doing anything wrong or that my advice, understanding or knowledge are wrong.

Also - how is it "cutting corners' if you just made the argument that a fish-in cycle is fine too?

He himself saying he messed up the cycle, why tell him don't bother, the proper advice is that if you are unsure and you have all the tools to check and it costs

He doesn't know if he messed up his cycle. He came here to find out. All reasonable indicators are that his "cycle" is fine and he can move forward with adding fish.

There is no need to make this any more complicated than that.

Happy Reefing

 

[dinosaur_1552]

Are you looking for 0 or 0.25 or below? Aside from contradicting yourself to argue with me, the answer is that it doesn't need to be dead 0 for us to determine that ammonia is being processed.

Applying some basic contextual logic.
He said:

We can reasonably conclude:
The tank has had water in for 3 or more months.
He kept dumping ammonia in.
The tank is sitting at 0.25 ppm ammonia.
He has 20+ ppm of nitrates.
The tank is cycled, otherwise the ammonia concentration would be insanely high.


it dropped to 0.25 which is close enough within error of a test kit for the purpose here. Some number above 1 ppm heading toward 0 is what we are looking for. The absolute accuracy is not important.


If you admit that it is not toxic at any reasonable level and there is no reasonable way to reach a toxic level in a marine tank, then why mention it as deadly or even worry about it?


That is a straw man argument:
We measure ammonia because that is what we are processing and it can easily be at toxic levels during the initial phase of cycling.

Nitrite and Nitrite are not toxic to marine fish in ay reasonable (or unreasonable) context. What we care about is seeing ammonia dropping. That fact that he diminished ammonia and is seeing nitrates negates the need to check or worry about nitrite. I would personally no bother checking for either nitrite or nitrate.


What corners were cut? While he may not be doing things your preferred way, that doesn't mean he is cutting corners or doing anything wrong or that my advice, understanding or knowledge are wrong.

Also - how is it "cutting corners' if you just made the argument that a fish-in cycle is fine too?


He doesn't know if he messed up his cycle. He came here to find out. All reasonable indicators are that his "cycle" is fine and he can move forward with adding fish.

There is no need to make this any more complicated than that.

Happy Reefing

Jeez, are you brandon with a different acc? (where is brandon btw, did I miss some major drama while I was away in the last couple of years).

Cycling is finished when nitrites are converting to nitrates. Most of fishkeepers and every single bottled bacteria manufacturers thinks this way, thats why their product contains bacteria to convert nitrites as well.

There are many studies out there about nitrite toxicity, its definitely not beneficial for fish in higher concentrations, if these are too high level for some, there is dr tims article for beginners, mentions nitrites a few times: https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling/