Metal Halide and T5 Grow Corals Better Than LED and Cost Less

[TexasTodd]

I think these threads are funny and I am a fan of M/H, T5s and LEDs. But when I see 90% (maybe exaggerated but you get my point) of LED users adding T5 supplement to their Radions or Hydras or Kessils, etc then it kinda confirms to me what the best lighting is.

But, almost all run/ran tubes with their MH too! I'd say that LED has somewhat cut into SOME of the extra tubes you want for different spectrum.

 

[Magellan]

Every single coral I have in my tank looked worse when I got it than it does now. They were all grown under LEDs/came out of LED lit tanks. My tank is lit by a 150w 14k MH...just my .02

oh and I have not lost a single frag and get fantastic growth. I just can not see the argument here.

It’s obviously a personal preference when choosing lighting...but the OP is right, knows he’s right, and isn’t compromising because HE IS RIGHT. Thank you @A. grandis for yet another great thread!

 

[A. grandis]

Thank you, I have always struggled to find words to say that for some reason.

You're very welcome. I appreciate your input here.

 

[A. grandis]

Every single coral I have in my tank looked worse when I got it than it does now. They were all grown under LEDs/came out of LED lit tanks. My tank is lit by a 150w 14k MH...just my .02

oh and I have not lost a single frag and get fantastic growth. I just can not see the argument here.

It’s obviously a personal preference when choosing lighting...but the OP is right, knows he’s right, and isn’t compromising because HE IS RIGHT. Thank you @A. grandis for yet another great thread!

Thank you very much.

 

[RCS82]

But, almost all run/ran tubes with their MH too! I'd say that LED has somewhat cut into SOME of the extra tubes you want for different spectrum.

I totally agree but theres a few different takes on this. Only opinion here but I'll use two examples. First one is a pair of Radions and then going ahead and adding an Aquatic Life T5 Hybrid to it and then second example is an ATI 6 or 8 bulb fixture and adding Reefbrites to it. The first is an example of lack of performance and needing to supplement for performance. Second example is just a lack of aesthetics and already having the performance in the bag.
That's where I'm coming from. But only opinion.

 

[RCS82]

Probably gonna get my head chewed off for that last comment lol.

 

[Alex 92]

I think the reason why I’m torn between going back straight to strictly leds is bc I’ve seen extreme growth results in one month with a T5 and a diy led fixture to make it a hybrid but everywhere I buy for frags they are now using strictly blue lighting spectrums. So that’s why it’s tough to find a budget light. As we all know T5s are budget freandly. This is just my opinion

 

[Dana Riddle]

I've used or tested just about every lighting source, ranging from standard output fluorescent lamps to the Fusion microwave sulfur lamp. As I've always stated, there aren't any poor lights (within reason) but there are poor applications. With that said, my favorites are LEDs. As for growth, I'll post pictures of a Strawberry Shortcake Acropora taken about 5 weeks apart. I'll let the photos speak for themselves.

 

[Dana Riddle]

For those using metal halide lamps, I've almost completed an article listing PAR values for over 200 photosynthetic organisms. These measurements were take in 1998 and 1999 when Iwasaki 400w 6500K lamps were king.

 

[Bpb]

For those using metal halide lamps, I've almost completed an article listing PAR values for over 200 photosynthetic organisms. These measurements were taken in 1998 and 1999 when Iwasaki 400w 6500K lamps were king.

I very much look forward to seeing the data on this study

 

[justingraham]

So 230 plus post
Dana riddle votes for LEDs
Battle corals says he sees no difference
OP states mike palleta and Sanjay as reasons for using metal halides
Both now run ecotech radions if they really loved halides wouldn’t they be running halides?
I have metal halides I like metal halides I have T-5’s I like them as well I also have LEDs XHO’s to be exact and I like them okay.

The best colored corals I have ever seen in person came from LEDs which slowly lost its color under my halides.
The thing is all three lights work none are better then the rest all have their place in the hobby but there is just to many variables (flow nutrients feed routine and so on) to claim that metal halides are better at growing corals then LEDs especially when Dana says LEDs grow coral Adam likes them Paletta uses them and so does Sanjay

these debates are pointless and I believe some of the people posting on here only see what they want to see in regards to metal halides like quoting a marine Depot video from almost two decades ago or tullio from reef brite talking about selling his own halides or talking about Sanjays coral under halides and how bad it looks now but so bad that Sanjay continues to run ecotech radions. I mean there is roughly 20 videos posted in 230 post about how great halides are all are roughly 10 years old if metal halides were that good wouldn’t there be more videos of tanks within the last two years with halides?
Once again I am a halide user but these threads are silly all three lights grow coral the main coral sellers use radions for a reason instead of halides the best tanks that I have seen in person run LEDs if metal halides could grow coral as fast and better then anything else on the market people would be using them

 

[Bpb]

So 230 plus post
Dana riddle votes for LEDs
Battle corals says he sees no difference
OP states mike palleta and Sanjay as reasons for using metal halides
Both now run ecotech radions if they really loved halides wouldn’t they be running halides?
I have metal halides I like metal halides I have T-5’s I like them as well I also have LEDs XHO’s to be exact and I like them okay.

The best colored corals I have ever seen in person came from LEDs which slowly lost its color under my halides.
The thing is all three lights work none are better then the rest all have their place in the hobby but there is just to many variables (flow nutrients feed routine and so on) to claim that metal halides are better at growing corals then LEDs especially when Dana says LEDs grow coral Adam likes them Paletta uses them and so does Sanjay

these debates are pointless and I believe some of the people posting on here only see what they want to see in regards to metal halides like quoting a marine Depot video from almost two decades ago or tullio from reef brite talking about selling his own halides or talking about Sanjays coral under halides and how bad it looks now but so bad that Sanjay continues to run ecotech radions. I mean there is roughly 20 videos posted in 230 post about how great halides are all are roughly 10 years old if metal halides were that good wouldn’t there be more videos of tanks within the last two years with halides?
Once again I am a halide user but these threads are silly all three lights grow coral the main coral sellers use radions for a reason instead of halides the best tanks that I have seen in person run LEDs if metal halides could grow coral as fast and better then anything else on the market people would be using them

I agree with most of what you say. Except for one part. I don’t think people would still be using halides now like they once were, regardless of how well they work. And it’s not because leds can do just as well.

Non-scientific opinion here. Sorry. But I truly believe at my core that a rough majority of people who use leds do so because they are more excited about the light show adjustability and how cool they think the tech is, rather than how effective they are. Yes many of the expert home aquarists and aquaculture facilities stand firm they get just as well of results under leds. And I believe them. But they’re not the people I’m talking about. I’m talking about the people who have a handful of soft corals but believe they need 3 grand worth of radions.

 

[RCS82]

I'd like to see some outstanding all LED tanks that can match tanks like Steve Weast's or Copps on RC.
I love LEDs but I just feel like you have to spend an arm and a leg in fixtures to match the spread and output you get with M/H. Also mainly talking about SPS tanks and I feel like that is something that gets misinterpreted.

 

[xiaoxiy]

How does one transition from one light source to another over an established reef? Last time I swapped from T5/LED (ATI Nanobox) to Radions (GEN3), I crashed my tank even after PAR matching .

 

[Dana Riddle]

How does one transition from one light source to another over an established reef? Last time I swapped from T5/LED (ATI Nanobox) to Radions (GEN3), I crashed my tank even after PAR matching .

I suspect it has to do with the PUR values of different light sources.

 

[Backreefing]

How does one transition from one light source to another over an established reef? Last time I swapped from T5/LED (ATI Nanobox) to Radions (GEN3), I crashed my tank even after PAR matching .

Just buy some metal halide lights and start them off a little high off the tank , and only 4 hours a day. Every several days add an hour. Then once you’re up to 7 hours a day start to lower your halides to where you want . Done

 

[xiaoxiy]

Just buy some metal halide lights and start them off a little high off the tank , and only 4 hours a day. Every several days add an hour. Then once you’re up to 7 hours a day start to lower your halides to where you want . Done

I'm running MH/T5 currently on my new build. Things have been great in terms of growth (see below 30 days of pink lemonade growth). I hate the light bleed though, use almost 400W of electricity (Pheonix 14k on M80 ballasts and 4x 24W T5s), and don't have actinic colors.

If there is truly no difference in growth with MH to LEDs in terms of coral health and I can have lower energy costs, have no bulb change and be able to run actinics for the blue-glow, I'd rather use LEDs (2x Radions Gen3). Just curious as to if and how I should go about swapping the lights out. Kinda scared of another crash though.

 

[Waynerock]

I would still have halides over the tank if they looked good. Fixture wise not performance. 20 years ago( when single) I had the ugliest best working lights ever but I feel like I have grown and like the minimalist look of 3 super thin small fixtures over the tank. I want the outside to look as good as the inside. I can’t say these led’s work better or worse because 20 years ago I had way different corals in the tank so it’s apples to oranges for me. I think it really comes down to the wife wants everything to look clean on the outside and I’ll give her that, how the inside looks is up to me. I have learned to pick my battles. Performance wise I can’t imagine halides working better for me now, my Led’s leave nothing to be desired I enjoy the slight bluer look and algae was always a pain for me back in the halide days, but of course treatment methods of nuisance algae have come a long way too and if I had those tools back then It might of not been an issue. Just my .02 either way it’s a good time to be a reefer!

 

[Reefcowboy]

I will be a MH until there are no more bulbs being sold. Ran every led out there and had great results. Led these days have proven to color at times better than mhs.

Issue is it takes lots of time and experience to learn to dial them in the system.

I also think not everyone can run mhs. In my current system my tank is in the basement so in the hot months the AC gets down there and cools the tank rising to max 79.5 mid summer. In the past when I had my tank on the second floor it was a nightmare running a chiller. Made the room uncomfortable and I can say heat is a big issue. I feel fortunate to be able to run MHs now with heat hot being a factor.

I can careless about light dimming up or down, moonlighting or all that nonsense. I do however HAVE to have blue LEDs to supplement for shimmer and pop.

I definitely see differences in sps coloration between led and mh. Both are appealing, but at same time different.

When it comes to coral health however, NOTHING beats mh. When I ran G4s or the Orpheks, colors were great but sps structures weren't as branched as they are with mhs. Some colonies displayed a 9 out of 10 in overall polyp, branching growth when i could only get them on a 6 or 7 with my previous led tanks.

Love both types though

 

[Vette67]

First of all, I will say you are in the wrong hobby if cost is your primary consideration. Reef tanks are expensive and we just need to accept that and do what is best from there, not what is cheapest.

It is just a fact that natural sunlight has a kelvin temperature somewhere between 5000 and 6000. Anything we do to deviate from that, we do for our benefit, not for the corals’ benefit. The coral doesn’t care if we like how it looks under one light vs. another. No coral in it’s natural environment fluoresces in natural sunlight. We do that with LED because we think it looks cool, not for the corals benefit. So we, as keepers of our reefs, make statements to fit our own narrative based on our experience. “Hey this looks cool, the coral grew, so it must work.” But did it grow optimally? I make the argument against the “blue trend” even as I have just fallen victim to it, having converted my tank from a 20+ year run under 10,000K halides to 14,000K. You cannot argue that it is “natural” to essentially run your reef under what used to be called “black lights”. Does it work? Of course. People successfully keep and grow coral under the bluest of LED settings. But you can make no scientific argument that the coral benefits from something different than the natural sunlight it has evolved over the millennia to depend on. None of us can beat nature.

So the myth keeps getting perpetuated over and over again that you need to tweak up the blue as high as you can on your LED to benefit the coral. Just go to a frag swap to see this in action. On the other hand, the temperature rating on halides does, in fact, more closely mimic that of natural sunlight, and would be near perfect if you could handle the yellow cast of the 6,500K bulb over your reef. That’s just fact. A 6,500K bulb is the best for growing coral, because it most closely mimics natural sunlight. That is not opinion or anecdote. I will part with this anecdote. This is a frag I purchased a little over 4 years ago that was about 1.5” at the time. It has lived its life in a high PAR world directly under a 250w 10,000K bulb and is now about the size of a volleyball: